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10 hours ago, cuchulain said:

truth is not a popularity contest, or the earth would be flat and the sun revolve around us.  it is what it is, though, regardless of opinion.

The round Earth and Heliocentrism are more popular concepts than the alternatives you proffer. So if truth is a popularity contest, those concepts should be true, no? 

I believe that belief does not change truth. However, belief changes what we can accept as true, which changes how we react to the truth- and those who speak it. We may believe we want the truth, but if we believe lies to be the truth, what we really want is more lies. No?

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12 hours ago, mererdog said:

The round Earth and Heliocentrism are more popular concepts than the alternatives you proffer. So if truth is a popularity contest, those concepts should be true, no? 

I believe that belief does not change truth. However, belief changes what we can accept as true, which changes how we react to the truth- and those who speak it. We may believe we want the truth, but if we believe lies to be the truth, what we really want is more lies. No?

Such circular logic makes my world spin, getting me dizzy! LOL

But I don't know that the last statement would be necessarily true, though one option. Other may be: if we want to believe lies to be the truth, we may not actually know what truth really is.

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13 hours ago, mererdog said:

The round Earth and Heliocentrism are more popular concepts than the alternatives you proffer. So if truth is a popularity contest, those concepts should be true, no? 

I believe that belief does not change truth. However, belief changes what we can accept as true, which changes how we react to the truth- and those who speak it. We may believe we want the truth, but if we believe lies to be the truth, what we really want is more lies. No?

historically, the earth was considered flat.  did the truth change?

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1 hour ago, Key said:

If we want to believe lies to be the truth, we may not actually know what truth really is.

I often want to believe lies to be the truth, even when I know they are lies rather than truth. Life would be easier if I got to choose what I believe, rather than being stuck having beliefs that cause me discomfort.

Ah, to be able to wish away my feelings of guilt, shame, and personal responsibility. To be able to seamlessly replace worry with confidence and disappointment with triumph. To shape my inner world to my liking with no regard to the shape of the outer world. Such a pretty dream.

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1 hour ago, cuchulain said:

historically, the earth was considered flat.  did the truth change?

Maybe. I know of no way to objectively test claims that truth is subjective. Do you?

 

Also, history is not truth. It is a mishmash of collected subjective experience. Much of it is rumor, much of it is propaganda, and much of it is lost. We can never really know that belief in a flat Earth was popular. We can simply believe it or not believe it, depending on how we react to the evidence available to us.

Edited by mererdog

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Schrödinger's famous thought experiment involving a cat, some poison gas, and a decaying isotope illustrates our relationship to the truth rather well. Depending on interpretation, some will say "It is absurd, therefore it cannot be true" some will say "It is both absurd and true" and some wiil say "clearly we don't really understand what is going on here".

 

https://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/00/pwillen1/lit/msysip.htm

Edited by mererdog

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1 hour ago, mererdog said:

Maybe. I know of no way to objectively test claims that truth is subjective. Do you?

 

your or my inability to prove the reality of truth does not mean i should accept or reject any claim.  that would be poor logic.

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5 hours ago, cuchulain said:

historically, the earth was considered flat.  did the truth change?

No, knowledge did.

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5 hours ago, cuchulain said:

why doesn't it?

I don't know. You brought it up. I thought maybe there was a reason.

Edited by mererdog

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18 hours ago, mererdog said:

Care to prove a difference there? ;)

Naw, but I'll indulge ya. ;)

Truth is always there. Acknowledgement, thus knowledge, of it isn't. Truth doesn't change, awareness does.

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On 1/19/2018 at 9:43 AM, Key said:

Truth doesn't change

Sure about that? I mean, if it did, how would we know? In other words, is that truth, or wishful thinking?

Edited by mererdog

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4 hours ago, mererdog said:

Sure about that? I mean, if it did, how would we know? In other words, is that truth, or wishful thinking?

 

Its not wishful thinking, the truth can't change.  If it could, it wouldn't be the truth.. But of course, if you alter the circumstances by which a truth is established, then a truth can be altered or canceled.. e.g; I tell you that a lit stick of dynamite is about to explode, but you pull the fuse out preventing an explosion. What I said was true, but you changed the parameters by which a conclusion was derived. So if you told me that its raining out, and I'll get wet if I go outside, that's the truth,. But if I take an umbrella and don't get wet, did you lie? No, I just added a dimension (umbrella) to the equation which preventing your truth from occurring..  

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On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 4:51 PM, mererdog said:

I don't know. You brought it up. I thought maybe there was a reason.

I never did bring it up...just re read those posts.  Nope.  I sure didn't say anything about logic in this topic.

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