VonNoble

Authentic self

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Can you really know yourself

without feedback from others?

 

Without seeing how others see us...

are we not flat .... missing a dimension

as it were?

 

von

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yes you can,even tho it is difficult to explain.like you say "we are the sum of our choices".is it an accurate picture?maybe.

 

feed back can be positive or negetive depending on how it's taken,and how it was intended to be presented.how we use it is an entirely different story.

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10 hours ago, VonNoble said:

Can you really know yourself

without feedback from others?

 

Without seeing how others see us...

are we not flat .... missing a dimension

as it were?

 

von

We receive feed back from birth to grave. This feedback is as much a part of our environment as the air we breathe. That feedback, along with other environmental influences ( to include family and ethnic histories),  give us our sense of who we are as well as our sense of self worth.

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11 hours ago, VonNoble said:

Can you really know yourself

without feedback from others?

You can't really know yourself, any more than you can know the wind. Nothing about you is permanent. Everything about you has changed, is changing, and will change. The self is a cultivated illusion.

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16 hours ago, VonNoble said:

Can you really know yourself

without feedback from others?

 

Without seeing how others see us...

are we not flat .... missing a dimension

as it were?

 

von

 

In general terms, I have been harshly misunderstood by others.  When I must evaluate, I go with my own perceptions.

 

In religious terms, I have been so badly misunderstood, that I don't care at all what the pious think of me.  

 

:whist:

 

 

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Greetings to you all my sisters and brothers,

 

In my own personal experience, I have come to learn that while I might think I know myself, without hearing from others how they have come to know and understand me, my perception may not always be spot on.  Fortunately, I have a wife who is more than happy to point out things about myself that I may not have seen.  :not_i:

 

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

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15 hours ago, mark 45 said:

yes you can,even tho it is difficult to explain.like you say "we are the sum of our choices".is it an accurate picture?maybe.

 

feed back can be positive or negetive depending on how it's taken,and how it was intended to be presented.how we use it is an entirely different story.

Yes...either of us is the sum of our own choices.... agreed.

 

At times others have helped me to 

see the impact of the choice in ways

i did not anticipate 

 

Their feeback helped me to choose

more wisely, perhaps, the next time

 

My view of my action -however well 

intended-was not necessarily accurate 

...it was not the take -away of others

 

It is not .... very often

 

It is not about pleasing them

....it is about communicating

and acting more affectively

 

Is it likely others help me to 

better myself, adjust the sails

and course correct?

 

Learning from others is a choice

von

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14 hours ago, Brother Kaman said:

We receive feed back from birth to grave. This feedback is as much a part of our environment as the air we breathe. That feedback, along with other environmental influences ( to include family and ethnic histories),  give us our sense of who we are as well as our sense of self worth.

 

BRAVO!

von

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14 hours ago, cuchulain said:

i think many define themselves through the auspices of others. but then others determine your self worth.

Good point.    That certainly is one 

possible scenario.

 

Growth arrives with change.

Discovering that our mannerisms

are off-putting, our language ineffective 

our presentation counter-productive

... would all be opportunities to pause

and check if that is helpful to us 

or ridiculous nonsense

 

Either way they  helped us.

They gave us additional perspectives.

Or they provided validation, no?

 

von

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13 hours ago, mererdog said:

You can't really know yourself, any more than you can know the wind. Nothing about you is permanent. Everything about you has changed, is changing, and will change. The self is a cultivated illusion.

 

Doesn't ever-changing self

exist fully between the breath in

and the breath out? 

 

von

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7 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

In general terms, I have been harshly misunderstood by others.  When I must evaluate, I go with my own perceptions.

 

In religious terms, I have been so badly misunderstood, that I don't care at all what the pious think of me.  

 

:whist:

 

 

Not carrying what others think is fine. 

 

However that that is different than 

understanding their input is, at times,

of use.  On occasion another

holding a mirror ...spot on center is

revealing.

 

Often catching the light on us 

in angles we cannot reach, maybe

 

von

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2 hours ago, Rev. Calli said:

In my own personal experience, I have come to learn that while I might think I know myself, without hearing from others how they have come to know and understand me, my perception may not always be spot on

 

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

 

Thank you 

 

How do you determine when they have it 

right?  

 

von

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12 hours ago, VonNoble said:

Not carrying what others think is fine. 

 

However that that is different than 

understanding their input is, at times,

of use.  On occasion another

holding a mirror ...spot on center is

revealing.

 

Often catching the light on us 

in angles we cannot reach, maybe

 

von

 

 

The world is awash in bullies and other abusers.  Also, fools who mean well, but don't have a clue.  I have discovered that giving my power over to others is a mistake.  When I was younger, I made that mistake.  No more.  Sometimes, even I learn from mistakes.  

 

:whist:

 

 

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13 hours ago, VonNoble said:

 

Doesn't ever-changing self

exist fully between the breath in

and the breath out? 

 

von

 

 

"The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao.

The Name that can be named is not the eternal Name."

 

Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu.

 

Change is the only constant.

 

I Ching  (Book of Change)

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Rev. Calli said:

Greetings to you all my sisters and brothers,

 

In my own personal experience, I have come to learn that while I might think I know myself, without hearing from others how they have come to know and understand me, my perception may not always be spot on.  Fortunately, I have a wife who is more than happy to point out things about myself that I may not have seen.  :not_i:

 

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

 

This particular task is also a mother's job.  One of my mother's favorites.

 

:sigh2:

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3 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

The world is awash in bullies and other abusers.  Also, fools who mean well, but don't have a clue.  I have discovered that giving my power over to others is a mistake.  When I was younger, I made that mistake.  No more.  Sometimes, even I learn from mistakes.  

 

:whist:

 

 

As do I !

Sometimes I didn't realize I made the mistake initially.  Sometimes someone

explaibs things to me ... I think about it

and realize ... geesh....I made a mistake!

 

Somtimes feedback from others  helps

me to do better.

 

Sometimes I learn from others sharing their mistake... which is good ...I don't have time enough to make all the mistakes myself ( old joke)

 

Hearing feedback is'nt equivalent 

of handing over control if you life

well it can be - but I can't view that as

a healthful option in most instances.

 

Whatever you are doing it is clearly working well for you - you seem to be in a good place

 

von 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

 

"The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao.

The Name that can be named is not the eternal Name."

 

Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu.

 

Change is the only constant.

 

I Ching  (Book of Change)

 

 

 

And what of the moment of transference from THIS to THAT....

 

Pergaps a moment with no name?

von

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10 minutes ago, VonNoble said:

And what of the moment of transference from THIS to THAT....

 

Pergaps a moment with no name?

von

 

 

We have meditation.  Some things can not be heard unless we are quiet.  

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1 hour ago, VonNoble said:

As do I !

Sometimes I didn't realize I made the mistake initially.  Sometimes someone

explaibs things to me ... I think about it

and realize ... geesh....I made a mistake!

 

Somtimes feedback from others  helps

me to do better.

 

Sometimes I learn from others sharing their mistake... which is good ...I don't have time enough to make all the mistakes myself ( old joke)

 

Hearing feedback is'nt equivalent 

of handing over control if you life

well it can be - but I can't view that as

a healthful option in most instances.

 

Whatever you are doing it is clearly working well for you - you seem to be in a good place

 

von 

 

 

 

 

Thank you.  For me, it begins with radical internal honesty.  What do I believe?  What do I really believe?  Not, what I should believe.  Or what I would like to believe.  Or what I would like to tell others I believe.  No.  That's crap.  What do I really believe?

 

Not much.  I have also discovered, that the true nature of my deep beliefs, is subject to drift.  I have made a few discoveries.

 

1.  I lack piety.  This is not good or bad.  It is simply true.  I don't care whether or not God exists.  That is my truth.

 

2.  I don't know whether or not God exists.  That is the truth.  My truth.  The idea of God's existence seems rather silly.  But I could be mistaken.  There were times when I did believe.  They could come back.  I doubt it, but I am inconsistent.

 

3.  At minimum, I do not have an affirmative belief that God exists.

 

4.  I can not be certain of my own beliefs.  In the past, I have believed.  I prayed.  I look back in horror and disdain.  I might have a future self looking back at me now -- wondering how I could have been so stupid.  Probably not, but maybe.

 

Well, Agnostic seems to fit.  So does Atheist.  So does Apatheist.  For a while, I tried working with Pantheism.  In my truth, I discovered that that was dishonest.  Labels.  In the end, none of them matter.

 

:sigh2:     :whist:

 

:mellow:

 

Stream of consciousness.  I seem to have drifted off topic.  Anything specific need covering?  

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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