RevTom

ordination

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43 minutes ago, Rev. Calli said:

Greetings to you my brother,

 

I live a few miles from Wisconsin Memorial Park.  I didn't do the ceremony :)

 

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

 

Thank you.  Back in the day, before the situation was clear, I joined the Christian ULC.  I was never Christian.  I never payed up.  And I never renounced my memberships in Modesto HQ or the Monastery.  It seemed like the friendly thing to do.  I listed my 1978 ordination date.  After a few friendly months, I was removed from membership.

 

I've been thrown out of better places.          :sigh2:

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19 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

The short version:

 

Someone -- I think his name was Michael -- stole the mailing list from the monastery -- and set himself up in Florida as the only true Universal Life Church.  It was for Christians only and there was a fee for being ordained.  People would pay up for their ordination and then get defrocked.  An appalling scam.  Michael was known for sending threatening phone calls and e-mails to both the Modesto people -- us -- and the Monastery people.

 

One day I went to his website to see what mischief he was about.  The site was gone.  I was wondering what had happened.  

I know the story well, but thanks friend.

My post was more in humor as he said the guy was "interred ...over by me". ;)

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3 hours ago, Key said:

I know the story well, but thanks friend.

My post was more in humor as he said the guy was "interred ...over by me". ;)

 

It's a sad, depressing.story.  The kind of thing that makes religion seem like a dirty word.  

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2 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

It's a sad, depressing.story.  The kind of thing that makes religion seem like a dirty word.  

At least you didn't lose any money in it, right?

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41 minutes ago, Key said:

At least you didn't lose any money in it, right?

 

I didn't.  Others did.  I feel bad for the others.  

 

I have been fleeced by other cons.  I have learned caution in picking a leader.  Or a cause.  It's not that I was so smart.  I have been so stupid.  Even I learn from mistakes.  

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An update on my ordination certificate debacle: The Modesto database is still down. An IT guy is supposed to be there now, fixing the problem. I will call back Monday or Tuesday to see if it is fixed and see if my ordination did in fact come from Modesto. I believe it did, because I believe I remember one or two of the signatures  being from someone I recognized from ULC.

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The Point is rather moot- BOTH are two SEPERATE legal entities that do much the same thing. Having extensively investigated the issue, according to the United States Attorney's Office, both organizations have a charter, and hence both organizations may independently ordain. However, the ordination of one, is not the ordination of the other.  Hence, to solve the problem, one would ordain with both to solve any "legal" issue of sorts, in terms of "which organization" and the confusion, in terms of the law, that stems from it.

 

This is the strategy I took- no matter "which" organization one attempts to retrieve records from, I know I will show in BOTH organization's records; making the current date irrelevant to any proceedings that might stem from the issue. This was the advice I was given from my attorney on the issue.

Edited by ULCneo

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On 10/21/2017 at 6:47 PM, ULCneo said:

The Point is rather moot- BOTH are two SEPERATE legal entities that do much the same thing. Having extensively investigated the issue, according to the United States Attorney's Office, both organizations have a charter, and hence both organizations may independently ordain. However, the ordination of one, is not the ordination of the other.  Hence, to solve the problem, one would ordain with both to solve any "legal" issue of sorts, in terms of "which organization" and the confusion, in terms of the law, that stems from it.

 

This is the strategy I took- no matter "which" organization one attempts to retrieve records from, I know I will show in BOTH organization's records; making the current date irrelevant to any proceedings that might stem from the issue. This was the advice I was given from my attorney on the issue.

Yes, separate entities. But one operated shadily, meaning record keeping may have been sketchy at times, or so I have heard. Possible you may not be in one then.

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On 10/23/2017 at 12:29 PM, Key said:

Yes, separate entities. But one operated shadily, meaning record keeping may have been sketchy at times, or so I have heard. Possible you may not be in one then.

 

But for the fact that a notarized letter of standing is a legal record to itself. We must not forget that making deliberately false statements in a notarized document which one knows will be filed in a court of law is a crime. Further, neither the Government, nor third parties have the legal right to request a minister's credentials from the church without a valid search warrant, subpoena, or other appropriate judicial process under fifth amendment search and seizure law.

Edited by ULCneo

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On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 2:25 AM, ULCneo said:

 

But for the fact that a notarized letter of standing is a legal record to itself. We must not forget that making deliberately false statements in a notarized document which one knows will be filed in a court of law is a crime. Further, neither the Government, nor third parties have the legal right to request a minister's credentials from the church without a valid search warrant, subpoena, or other appropriate judicial process under fifth amendment search and seizure law.

Giving legal advice as a non lawyer is not a good idea.

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On 10/26/2017 at 2:25 AM, ULCneo said:

 

But for the fact that a notarized letter of standing is a legal record to itself. We must not forget that making deliberately false statements in a notarized document which one knows will be filed in a court of law is a crime. Further, neither the Government, nor third parties have the legal right to request a minister's credentials from the church without a valid search warrant, subpoena, or other appropriate judicial process under fifth amendment search and seizure law.

 

You are mistaken.  When I registered with the New York City Clerk's Office -- I had to produce my ordination certificate with raised seal; a letter of good standing from my church; and a copy of my church's corporate papers.  

 

:mellow:

 

 

 

 

 

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On 10/21/2017 at 9:47 PM, ULCneo said:

The Point is rather moot- BOTH are two SEPERATE legal entities that do much the same thing. Having extensively investigated the issue, according to the United States Attorney's Office, both organizations have a charter, and hence both organizations may independently ordain. However, the ordination of one, is not the ordination of the other.  Hence, to solve the problem, one would ordain with both to solve any "legal" issue of sorts, in terms of "which organization" and the confusion, in terms of the law, that stems from it.

 

This is the strategy I took- no matter "which" organization one attempts to retrieve records from, I know I will show in BOTH organization's records; making the current date irrelevant to any proceedings that might stem from the issue. This was the advice I was given from my attorney on the issue.

I finally found my ordination date - 6/25/2005. It is here at ULC, not the spinoff.

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