Gods of the Jews.

[Pete]

I was reading that the word Israel is made of three gods IS for Isis, Ra for Ra or Re, and El for Elnil the horned god. The Bible talks about EL often in the early passages. I am told this is maybe from the mountain god or the solar god. Please can people give any ideas to look further on this topic.

I understand this topic may be touchy to some but I would like educated sourses from history and not just bible references unless relevant to my research. Please understand I do not believe in the bible being totally truthful so please take scorn elsewhere.  Thank you friends.

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

7 hours ago, Pete said:

I was reading that the word Israel is made of three gods IS for Isis, Ra for Ra or Re, and El for Elnil the horned god. The Bible talks about EL often in the early passages. I am told this is maybe from the mountain god or the solar god. Please can people give any ideas to look further on this topic.

I understand this topic may be touchy to some but I would like educated sourses from history and not just bible references unless relevant to my research. Please understand I do not believe in the bible being totally truthful so please take scorn elsewhere.  Thank you friends.

I think you have that backwards.  There is some truth in the Bible.  Good luck picking it out.

[Pete]

Hi Johnathan,  I would has it a guess about less than 5% is truthful. However I am looking at some writings that talk about there being many gods. I am aware of the Jewish assertion that there is one. I also hear of Egyptian,  Babylonian, and other religions pre dating Judaism from the region. I am just interested in origins of God in culture. Not wishing to bash anyone. Just do not want being preached at.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Pete

[LeopardBoy]

I have doubts about the connection.  For one thing, the name Isis comes from the Greek version of the actual Egyptian name of this goddess (Aset), much like Jesus is the English transliteration of the Greek transliteration of his Hebrew name.

Every year in the spring I see memes that erroneously declare that the word Easter derives from the Mesopotamian goddess Ishtar.  I've also seen it going around that the Greek name of Jesus really means "son of Zeus" when really it is just a Greek transliteration of his Hebrew name.  These things seem to be at least partially based on how the names are coincidentally pronounced in English.

Edited March 30, 2017 by LeopardBoy

[mererdog]

33 minutes ago, LeopardBoy said:

 These things seem to be at least partially based on how the names are coincidentally pronounced in English.

יִשְׂרָאֵל‎ = "Yisrā'el"

If you look at any collection of numbers or letters, you will find patterns. Most will be both incidental and accidental.

Edited March 30, 2017 by mererdog

[Pete]

I am also told "Israel" mean God is triumphant.  Not speaking the languages, I just do not know. I just want to seperate  the rubbish from the fact. Like I say I am not aiming to argue. Thanks. If anyone has further info I would be grateful 

[mererdog]

 http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Israel

[Pete]

Thanks Meredog. That pretty much kills the Isis, Ra and Elnil view point

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

21 hours ago, Pete said:

Hi Johnathan,  I would has it a guess about less than 5% is truthful. However I am looking at some writings that talk about there being many gods. I am aware of the Jewish assertion that there is one. I also hear of Egyptian,  Babylonian, and other religions pre dating Judaism from the region. I am just interested in origins of God in culture. Not wishing to bash anyone. Just do not want being preached at.

On the level of pure mythology, Genesis agrees with you.  Abraham's father was a maker of "idols."  It points to the Polytheistic roots of Judaism.

[Stormbringer]

Genesis 11:27-32

Edited March 31, 2017 by Stormbringer

[Rev. Calli]

On 3/29/2017 at 9:01 AM, Pete said:

I was reading that the word Israel is made of three gods IS for Isis, Ra for Ra or Re, and El for Elnil the horned god. The Bible talks about EL often in the early passages. I am told this is maybe from the mountain god or the solar god. Please can people give any ideas to look further on this topic.

I understand this topic may be touchy to some but I would like educated sourses from history and not just bible references unless relevant to my research. Please understand I do not believe in the bible being totally truthful so please take scorn elsewhere.  Thank you friends.

 

Greetings to you my brother,

I think that is a bit of a reach.  The root word EL is the common word for God among the Semitic peoples of the middle east in ancient times.  Isreal is the name scripture says was given to Jacob after his encounter with God and typically is translated as "He contends against God (El)"  Even if we reject the idea of a historical Jacob, it would seem to me to be a real reach to think that a people who became monotheistic with a vengeance would keep as their tribal name a word that referred to other Gods then the one they believed to be the only God.

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

1 hour ago, Rev. Calli said:

Greetings to you my brother,

I think that is a bit of a reach.  The root word EL is the common word for God among the Semitic peoples of the middle east in ancient times.  Isreal is the name scripture says was given to Jacob after his encounter with God and typically is translated as "He contends against God (El)"  Even if we reject the idea of a historical Jacob, it would seem to me to be a real reach to think that a people who became monotheistic with a vengeance would keep as their tribal name a word that referred to other Gods then the one they believed to be the only God.

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

It depends on which page you are on.

In Isaiah and the Psalms, God is the only one.

Going back to the Ten Commandments:  "I am the Lord your God.  You will have no other gods before me."  

"For I, the Lord your God am a jealous god........."

In other words, the other gods are there.  There are also the lesser prophets, who scold the chosen people for "whoring after other gods."    Not really an issue, unless there are other gods to whore after.

There are also all the incidents of back sliding, where the chosen are "worshiping in the groves and high places."  Any concordance will take you to "groves" and "high places."  It seems to have happened a lot.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Rev. Calli]

11 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

It depends on which page you are on.

In Isaiah and the Psalms, God is the only one.

Going back to the Ten Commandments:  "I am the Lord your God.  You will have no other gods before me."  

"For I, the Lord your God am a jealous god........."

In other words, the other gods are there.  There are also the lesser prophets, who scold the chosen people for "whoring after other gods."    Not really an issue, unless there are other gods to whore after.

There are also all the incidents of back sliding, where the chosen are "worshiping in the groves and high places."  Any concordance will take you to "groves" and "high places."  It seems to have happened a lot.

 

Greetings to you my brother,

IMHO, when the prophets use terms like "other Gods" I do not think that they believed that there were literally other Gods as much as they were speaking against giving your devotion to something that was in their view only a myth.  There was only one true, real God. This of course is a matter of opinion.

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

12 minutes ago, Rev. Calli said:

Greetings to you my brother,

IMHO, when the prophets use terms like "other Gods" I do not think that they believed that there were literally other Gods as much as they were speaking against giving your devotion to something that was in their view only a myth.  There was only one true, real God. This of course is a matter of opinion.

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

Then what is it that God is jealous of?  A simple lack of devotion?  And what are the people worshiping in the groves and high places?  A mere metaphor?  In a tribal Theocracy, worshiping the old gods is deadly serious.  Not a poetic fancy.  Think of the times as a Jewish Saudi Arabia.  People died over these things.

Then again, if it's ALL mythology and none of it happened, what are we to make of the Scriptures?  At the least, it has something to say about the attitudes of the religious authorities.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

[Rev. Calli]

15 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Then what is it that God is jealous of?  A simple lack of devotion?  And what are the people worshiping in the groves and high places?  A mere metaphor?  In a tribal Theocracy, worshiping the old gods is deadly serious.  Not a poetic fancy.  Think of the times as a Jewish Saudi Arabia.  People died over these things.

Then again, if it's ALL mythology and none of it happened, what are we to make of the Scriptures?  At the least, it has something to say about the attitudes of the religious authorities.

 

Greetings to you my brother,

Actually, I think you were very close to the truth when you mention "a simple lack of devotion."  As I understand it, the people of Israel believed in one God who created all things, who had chosen them to be the special people thru whom God would reveal himself to the world, and who had freed them from captivity to Egypt and Babylon. For a person to give their love and devotion to anything other than God was the ultimate in disrespect, worthy of the harshest of penalties. People worshipping Idols claiming that they were Gods were turning their back on the one true God.  

In Christianity, we often refer to this passage from Matthew as the Greatest Commandment.

"Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?" He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."   (Matthew 22:36-40 NRSV)

Many of us in the Christian faith have come to believe that this passage refers to giving your ultimate devotion, your greatest love to any other than the God of the Hebrew Scriptures, the God who Jesus proclaimed. To give your greatest love to anything other than that God is to waste your love on something that is not lasting, something that is ultimately a false God  We make false Gods out of all sorts of things.  Power, money, sex, these things literally become God for some people, they spend their time worshiping these things, trying to acquire more and more of those things that they love the most.  But these things are not lasting.  Only our relationship with God is forever, as only God is forever.  That is why, in the Christian view, our relationship with God is first and foremost.  But next must come our relationships with each other.  To show each other the love, care, and respect that is due to another being with whom we share a common Creator, a person who is loved by God just as much as anyone.

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

[Jonathan H. B. Lobl]

2 hours ago, Rev. Calli said:

Greetings to you my brother,

Actually, I think you were very close to the truth when you mention "a simple lack of devotion."  As I understand it, the people of Israel believed in one God who created all things, who had chosen them to be the special people thru whom God would reveal himself to the world, and who had freed them from captivity to Egypt and Babylon. For a person to give their love and devotion to anything other than God was the ultimate in disrespect, worthy of the harshest of penalties. People worshipping Idols claiming that they were Gods were turning their back on the one true God.  

In Christianity, we often refer to this passage from Matthew as the Greatest Commandment.

"Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?" He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."   (Matthew 22:36-40 NRSV)

Many of us in the Christian faith have come to believe that this passage refers to giving your ultimate devotion, your greatest love to any other than the God of the Hebrew Scriptures, the God who Jesus proclaimed. To give your greatest love to anything other than that God is to waste your love on something that is not lasting, something that is ultimately a false God  We make false Gods out of all sorts of things.  Power, money, sex, these things literally become God for some people, they spend their time worshiping these things, trying to acquire more and more of those things that they love the most.  But these things are not lasting.  Only our relationship with God is forever, as only God is forever.  That is why, in the Christian view, our relationship with God is first and foremost.  But next must come our relationships with each other.  To show each other the love, care, and respect that is due to another being with whom we share a common Creator, a person who is loved by God just as much as anyone.

In solidarity,

Rev. Calli

At this point in my life, I am outside of Jewish theology.  I do retain a Jewish cultural perspective.  God is the **ty friend who tells you -- "Don't worry.  Leave everything to me."  Then he doesn't show.  The religion is very good at making all sorts of promises.  Not so great at keeping them.  An absolute wonder at inventing a history where God does deliver.  Not in real life -- but a wonder in ideology.