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Rev Richard

Where do you worship

87 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

Logics, reason and the moral value of the tenet using the Golden Rule as my guide.

This is how the ancients formed their arguments and I think it works quite well.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

 

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

 

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

 

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

 

Even Christians are given that directive but as you can see from those here who say God is justified in his genocide of man and the murder of many innocents, they have not dared apply the Golden Rule to the actions of their genocidal God.

 

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets

 

Regards

DL

How, ultimately, do you decide the golden rule should be your guide?  How do you test such?

I am not trying to be antagonistic, so I will try to get to my point without walking along apace.  Ultimately, the test of all things lies with internal reasoning upon the externally observed.  That is my belief, anyway.  I observe something, I reason using all the experience and genetics within to determine the major criteria of that something I observed(what is it, does it matter, how does it behave, how does it fit with my life or against it, so forth).  Any words in the bible, if they are tested, must resonate within naturally if they are true.  But...realization of experience varying from person to person, you must understand that not all people will attach the same understanding and meaning to things that you do.  

Logic serves emotion, in other words.  My logic serves my feelings.  If I feel that Christianity as it stands is an evil organized religion, then my observations will prove such.  If I feel that Christianity as it stands is the best hope of humanity, then equally...my observations will prove such.  (I have the darndest feeling that Brother Kaman will be shaking his head up and down at this one :) ). In part, our own intuition and experience and make up determine how we observe the world we live in.  As such, the best test you can answerably give anything in the bible is, "Does it feel right?"  For me, the answer is a resounding no.  For others, such as Ex Nihilo and Dan, the answer is a resounding Hallelujah.  

For the masochist, getting slapped in the face is kind of nice, you know? Golden rule should definitely be overridden by common sense at that point.  Yep, the majority of society deems slapping people in the face for no good reason to be wrong, and so it is.  No matter that you are treating them how you want to be treated.  

Just my thoughts.

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3 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Lot's wife, transformed into a pillar of salt.

Noah's Flood.

The First Born of Egypt  and The Egyptian Army.

There were others.  This is what comes to mind.

 

And don't forget, Dan has said that spiritual death is the result of sin.  Oblivion.  So, God has clearly done this to those who rejected all the teachings before now, right?

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On 5/2/2017 at 0:44 PM, cuchulain said:

I find it amazing how often you quote the bible to point out it's God's evil...yet then turn around and quote the bible for why you do so.  If some of the source is evil, the entirety should be suspect, shouldn't it?

Of course.  If I'm working with a cook book, and the first set of instructions produces something really nasty -- I don't expect the rest of it to be full of good ideas.

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4 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

How, ultimately, do you decide the golden rule should be your guide?  How do you test such?

I put the Golden Rule as my number one guide because I have never found a better rule to live life by. That rule is also written as Harm/Care. Meaning how I should react to the harm or care that is directed to me. IOW, a reciprocity rule.

I look at the issue at hand, apply my view of what I would like, all but one moral tenet I know are subjective, as you point out above,  and go from there. 

Regards

DL

 

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32 minutes ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

If Yahweh was in my presence, I would love it as I have a bullet with his name on it.

All decent moral men do as all decent moral men would be well justified in killing such a poor and immoral God.

Regards

DL

That is not at all what I had in mind.

A lot of people meditate as a spiritual practice.  They do not worship.  They do not pray.  They do not beg.  They do not request.  They meditate.  They open themselves up to the experience of the Absolute.  In silence.  The better to hear with the inner ear.  That Presence.

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9 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Of course.  If I'm working with a cook book, and the first set of instructions produces something really nasty -- I don't expect the rest of it to be full of good ideas.

Are you saying that what you and I do a lot of as described in these, is wrong?

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

You do not see those as good advice?

Regards

DL

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4 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

That is not at all what I had in mind.

A lot of people meditate as a spiritual practice.  They do not worship.  They do not pray.  They do not beg.  They do not request.  They meditate.  They open themselves up to the experience of the Absolute.  In silence.  The better to hear with the inner ear.  That Presence.

Ah.

I am all in for that. I call it seeking Gnosis.

Regards

DL

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14 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

And don't forget, Dan has said that spiritual death is the result of sin.  Oblivion.  So, God has clearly done this to those who rejected all the teachings before now, right?

The Bible is what we make of it.  Decide what you want to prove and then go cherry picking.  It's all in there if we know where to look.

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Not always, DL.  I mean, I think it's wrong to go into a bar and drink until you can't.  But I don't go picking a fight at the biker club my brother is a member of by telling them how wrong they are, you know?

Now, test all things, I can get behind that.  To a point, of course.  Moderation in all things?  That applies here, I believe.  If I test everything constantly as I get new information, I don't have much time for living.

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36 minutes ago, Brother Kaman said:

Would that be a silver bullet? What sort of bullet would one need to kill an Almighty God?:diablo:

For a god, the most deadly bullet of all is ridicule.  To treat the god with the contempt that it deserves.

 

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12 minutes ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

Are you saying that what you and I do a lot of as described in these, is wrong?

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

You do not see those as good advice?

Regards

DL

Let us be clear about what I am saying.

I do not in any way regard the Bible -- or the Koran - as authoritative.  Of course, if we do diligent cherry picking we can find good things in Scripture.  So what?

An old bit of wisdom.  I don't know who said it.  "The Bible is like any other living water.  Filled with dead offensive matter."

I don't care about the good things in the Bible.  I don't care about the bad things in the Bible.  I do not obey it.  I don't hold it in reverence.  I don't care.  The Bible is not a useful tool for making a point of any kind that matters.  IMO

 

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19 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

Not always, DL.  I mean, I think it's wrong to go into a bar and drink until you can't.  But I don't go picking a fight at the biker club my brother is a member of by telling them how wrong they are, you know?

Now, test all things, I can get behind that.  To a point, of course.  Moderation in all things?  That applies here, I believe.  If I test everything constantly as I get new information, I don't have much time for living.

You would be surprised how few testings need alteration once put on a moral graph. 

Once your ideology is pointed in the right direction it is hard to reverse but easily directed in small increments.

Regards

DL

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24 minutes ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

Ah.

I am all in for that. I call it seeking Gnosis.

Regards

DL

Good..  You take my meaning.  The quest for Gnosis is not the same as searching for God.

 

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7 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Let us be clear about what I am saying.

I do not in any way regard the Bible -- or the Koran - as authoritative.  Of course, if we do diligent cherry picking we can find good things in Scripture.  So what?

An old bit of wisdom.  I don't know who said it.  "The Bible is like any other living water.  Filled with dead offensive matter."

I don't care about the good things in the Bible.  I don't care about the bad things in the Bible.  I do not obey it.  I don't hold it in reverence.  I don't care.  The Bible is not a useful tool for making a point of any kind that matters.  IMO

 

Ok.

I find it useful to use against those who do give it authority.

Do not translate that as me giving it authority, it has none, but it does have the odd bit of decent advice.

Regards

DL

 

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2 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Good..  You take my meaning.  The quest for Gnosis is not the same as searching for God.

 

I think it is but we do not define the word God the same way.

Regards

DL

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Posted (edited)

Reverend Richard- if what you mean by this is, honoring the sacred?- then, the answer is, everywhere! :) 

Edited by the Hearthwitch
spelling error

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Jesus said that the right way to pray was in private. Closet yourself is the term he used.

Most people ignore that which shows just how well they follow their scapegoats advise.

Regards

DL 

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1 hour ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

I think it is but we do not define the word God the same way.

Regards

DL

The Supreme Supernatural Entity.

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11 hours ago, cuchulain said:

I thought spiritual death was the result of sin, and so many have suffered spiritual death because they were not followers?  This is something you have said before anyway.

That's correct, the wages of sin is death... But no one has been put to death because judgement has not yet arrived. My point being, God has not spiritually killed anyone to date, not that God won't kill in the future.

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So then it stands to reason that all the dead the world over have yet to be judged?  They are just waiting in some limbo till judgement?  I don't think I can get behind that interpretation, but I understand where you are coming from with it at least.

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