SisterSalome

How do your beliefs benefit you and society?

138 posts in this topic

24 minutes ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

I note and see and that you are aware of the moral reasons that government moved against the Branch Dividians.

My main point. The Westboro picketing ban had nothing to do with trespassing as they were on public lands. From what I can see, it was all common decency that prompted the restrictions. 

 

Common decency to the gullible is also why I would ban Christianity and Islam as all that both are good for is creating homophobes and misogynous people. They do appease the hiving instincts of the insecure but that is not worth the harm they do.

 

Regards

DL

 

It is not so simple to ban an idea.  The only way to fight an idea by force, is to fight the people who hold those ideas.  Is that what you want?   What exactly are you proposing?  Prisons for the religious?  Exile?  Expulsion?  Inquisition?  Holy War?  Torture?   :sigh2:  It's been done.

Who gets to decide?  The government?  Judges?  Which judges?  You?  Members of the church which is "right" and "just" and "moral?"  Your church?     :sigh2:  It's been done.  Mao and Pol Pot have already done it.  Hitler went to war against all Jews -- including the ones who had no beliefs at all.    A man who does nothing but fight monsters will become a monster.

Do your ears hear what your mouth is saying?    When does it stop?  If you ever get your wishes granted; I think that the new powers that be won't think that you are pure enough to live.  In every revolution, the first people lined up against the wall are the people who lead the last revolution.  Get ready.   If you get what you want, they will come for you.     :whist:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

It is not so simple to ban an idea.  The only way to fight an idea by force, is to fight the people who hold those ideas.  Is that what you want?   What exactly are you proposing?  Prisons for the religious?  Exile?  Expulsion?  Inquisition?  Holy War?  Torture?   :sigh2:  It's been done.

Who gets to decide?  The government?  Judges?  Which judges?  You?  Members of the church which is "right" and "just" and "moral?"  Your church?     :sigh2:  It's been done.  Mao and Pol Pot have already done it.  Hitler went to war against all Jews -- including the ones who had no beliefs at all.    A man who does nothing but fight monsters will become a monster.

Do your ears hear what your mouth is saying?    When does it stop?  If you ever get your wishes granted; I think that the new powers that be won't think that you are pure enough to live.  In every revolution, the first people lined up against the wall are the people who lead the last revolution.  Get ready.   If you get what you want, they will come for you.     :whist:

Was force used or required to pull I.D. out of schools?

 

Most people are law abiding and respect the law of the land over biblical immoral laws.

Trust in your people. I do.

 

Regards

DL

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

Was force used or required to pull I.D. out of schools?

 

Most people are law abiding and respect the law of the land over biblical immoral laws.

Trust in your people. I do.

 

Regards

DL

 

 

Keeping Creationism out of science classes is not the same thing as banning a religion -- or the religious.  Please.  You are capable of much greater clarity.     :rolleyes:

 

I feel like Emily Litella.  Alright.  Never mind.

:rolleyes:

 

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Keeping Creationism out of science classes is not the same thing as banning a religion -- or the religious.  Please.  You are capable of much greater clarity.     :rolleyes:

 

I feel like Emily Litella.  Alright.  Never mind.

:rolleyes:

 

Your constitution does not prohibit the banning of any religion.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpa6V8os-f0

 

Regards

DL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

Your constitution does not prohibit the banning of any religion.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpa6V8os-f0

 

Regards

DL

 

The First Amendment does.  The Free exercise clause.  This is the reason the American military has chaplains.

:blink:

I don't like the chaplain corps.  The Constitution rules.

:whist:

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

The First Amendment does.  The Free exercise clause.  This is the reason the American military has chaplains.

:blink:

I don't like the chaplain corps.  The Constitution rules.

:whist:

Now you know more than that announcers research group.

 

Regards

DL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe in responsibility, and primary to that, that each individual must be responsible for themselves.  If a persons beliefs are legislated, they are no longer responsible for those beliefs, in so far as they are abiding the law.  For anyone to foist their beliefs on others, especially for those in power, is simply asking for rebellion, in my opinion, but beyond that...who determines what beliefs are allowed?  The majority?  Argument Ad Populum still applies.  Just because a lot of people believe something to be moral, does not make it moral.  No, the only rational choice is to leave the governance of belief to the individuals involved, those that believe.  Let the Baptists deal with other Baptists, the Muslims deal with what being a Muslim is all about, the Satanists and Pagans and countless others, they determine their own core values and beliefs, and if they happen to agree with a large group of people, hey, they form their own little cult.  If they don't agree with a lot of other people, they practice themselves.  The only legislation that should intrude on this is that which keeps these people from intruding on others, i.e., they cannot be allowed to go out sacrificing babies, or eating each other, or stealing from other people who don't believe, or what have you.  If a person believes in Mammonism(ugh, personally), that's completely up to them, as long as they aren't ripping me off to get themselves richer I don't care.  If a person believes they are eating the body and blood of Christ in communion, again...I don't care, as long as they are not trying to nibble a piece off me.  On the other end of the spectrum, there are the positives.  Some churches and organizations donate food to those in need, or clothing, or help with finding work.  Again, so long as they aren't taking from me to do so, go for it.  

To the point of this question:  How my beliefs benefit me and society?  They don't, not really.  It's always up to the individual to benefit themselves or society, not the belief.  I think the belief often gets credit, and perhaps some people wouldn't help others without that edict in place.  But ultimately, personal responsibility is key.  Christian belief, Muslim, Pagan, Agnostic Christian, any others, they don't make anyone do anything that they wouldn't anyways, in my opinion.  People are perfectly capable of being nice to each other without deity.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

I believe in responsibility, and primary to that, that each individual must be responsible for themselves.  If a persons beliefs are legislated, they are no longer responsible for those beliefs, in so far as they are abiding the law.  For anyone to foist their beliefs on others, especially for those in power, is simply asking for rebellion, in my opinion, but beyond that...who determines what beliefs are allowed?  The majority?  Argument Ad Populum still applies.  Just because a lot of people believe something to be moral, does not make it moral.  No, the only rational choice is to leave the governance of belief to the individuals involved, those that believe.  Let the Baptists deal with other Baptists, the Muslims deal with what being a Muslim is all about, the Satanists and Pagans and countless others, they determine their own core values and beliefs, and if they happen to agree with a large group of people, hey, they form their own little cult.  If they don't agree with a lot of other people, they practice themselves.  The only legislation that should intrude on this is that which keeps these people from intruding on others, i.e., they cannot be allowed to go out sacrificing babies, or eating each other, or stealing from other people who don't believe, or what have you.  If a person believes in Mammonism(ugh, personally), that's completely up to them, as long as they aren't ripping me off to get themselves richer I don't care.  If a person believes they are eating the body and blood of Christ in communion, again...I don't care, as long as they are not trying to nibble a piece off me.  On the other end of the spectrum, there are the positives.  Some churches and organizations donate food to those in need, or clothing, or help with finding work.  Again, so long as they aren't taking from me to do so, go for it.  

To the point of this question:  How my beliefs benefit me and society?  They don't, not really.  It's always up to the individual to benefit themselves or society, not the belief.  I think the belief often gets credit, and perhaps some people wouldn't help others without that edict in place.  But ultimately, personal responsibility is key.  Christian belief, Muslim, Pagan, Agnostic Christian, any others, they don't make anyone do anything that they wouldn't anyways, in my opinion.  People are perfectly capable of being nice to each other without deity.  

 

Yes.  What we do is much more important than what we believe.     :D   :yes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, cuchulain said:

.  People are perfectly capable of being nice to each other without deity.  

 

4 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

Yes.  What we do is much more important than what we believe.     :D   :yes:

But sometimes a belief can inspire people to do good, when they otherwise wouldn't... It has with me anyway.

But of course, belief in a deity can also inspire people to do bad things that they wouldn't otherwise do.

Then again, people do good and bad without believing anything.   Quite a conundrum :unsure:

Edited by Dan56

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

But sometimes a belief can inspire people to do good, when they otherwise wouldn't... It has with me anyway.

But of course, belief in a deity can also inspire people to do bad things that they wouldn't otherwise do.

Then again, people do good and bad without believing anything.   Quite a conundrum :unsure:

 

People do good things for many reasons, including belief in God.  People do bad things for many reasons, including belief in God.   The important word in both cases is "do."  Motivation is interesting.  What matters is what they "do."  I conclude that actions are more important than belief.

What is better?  To do good things for bad reasons?  Or to do bad things for good reasons?

So long as the actions are good, I don't care if they were motivated by belief in God, or anything else.  Sometimes good actions come from simple kindness.  Or empathy.  Or humanity.  Or civics.  Or secular philosophy.  Or ego/pride.  Or what ever.  For me, it is enough.

:D 

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

People do good things for many reasons, including belief in God.  People do bad things for many reasons, including belief in God.   The important word in both cases is "do."  Motivation is interesting.  What matters is what they "do."  I conclude that actions are more important than belief.

What is better?  To do good things for bad reasons?  Or to do bad things for good reasons?

So long as the actions are good, I don't care if they were motivated by belief in God, or anything else.  Sometimes good actions come from simple kindness.  Or empathy.  Or humanity.  Or civics.  Or secular philosophy.  Or ego/pride.  Or what ever.  For me, it is enough.

:D 

What is better? To do good for good reasons.. If what your doing is good, there's not a bad reason for doing it.. If what your doing is bad, there's not a good reason for doing it.. The conundrum is, people have completely different ideas as to what's good and what's bad. To some people, killing you is good, and they believe they have a good reason for doing it.. And others think that simple kindness is bad, because its done for a bad reason. So the golden rule; Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, would seem to be the way to approach life. However, radical Muslims might say; If I were like you, I'd want you to kill me. So in effect, they're doing unto you as they would want you to do unto them... Crazy is everywhere, maybe the real problem is that people have and always will do stupid things for stupid reasons? Although, on rare occasions, good happens for inexplicable reasons. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Dan56 said:

What is better? To do good for good reasons.. If what your doing is good, there's not a bad reason for doing it.. If what your doing is bad, there's not a good reason for doing it.. The conundrum is, people have completely different ideas as to what's good and what's bad. To some people, killing you is good, and they believe they have a good reason for doing it.. And others think that simple kindness is bad, because its done for a bad reason. So the golden rule; Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, would seem to be the way to approach life. However, radical Muslims might say; If I were like you, I'd want you to kill me. So in effect, they're doing unto you as they would want you to do unto them... Crazy is everywhere, maybe the real problem is that people have and always will do stupid things for stupid reasons? Although, on rare occasions, good happens for inexplicable reasons. 

When good happens, I don't question it.     :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My belief system, my own personal mythology if you will, provides me with a frame of reference or map which I use to navigate through life. It is primarily of immense benefit to me, although it may benefit others indirectly. By being able to make sense of the universe and my place in it allows me to function primarily as a beneficent (or at least neutral) god rather than a wrathful deity ;) 

Yours in Darkness,

Umbraedeus, God of Shadow

Edited by Umbraedeus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now