SisterSalome

How do your beliefs benefit you and society?

138 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Dan56 said:

 

You have cherry picked your quotes, finding a verse to substantiate what you think while disregarding the context of what's written. I don't have time to refute them all, but will take Jeremiah 20;7-13. This passage is expressing the conflict in the prophet's own mind towards the mockery and slander his preaching brought on him. Verse 7 "Thou hast deceived me", is better rendered; "Thou didst entice me, and I let myself be enticed". Jeremiah refers to the hesitation he originally felt by accepting the prophetic office (Jeremiah  1). The verb does not mean "to deceive," but "to entice or allure" as rendered in verse.10. The same word is used in 1 Kings 22:21 meaning to persuade.or entice. The same case in Ezekiel 15:9 where God's "enticing" a prophet..The expression implies that all events are, in some sense, caused by God, even those which are or appear to be injurious to the individual. The context of Ezekiel 14:7-11, is clearly about a false prophet and the person who comes to him.

I'll agree that God does allow people to be deceived, and there are examples of when people rebel or turn their backs against God where he turns them over to delusion or a lying spirit. But “God is not a man, that he should lie” (Numbers 23:19) and "The Glory of Israel does not lie”( 1 Samuel 15:29). The adversary is that spirit of deception, a liar from the beginning; "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not" (Corinthians 4:4). God does not lie, but he hardens hearts, sends delusion (2 Thessalonians 2:11), and lets deception flourish (Romans 1).  

And its fine if you prefer some Jewish interpretation that Eden was really the "rise of men", but going from life to death because of disobedience to God hardly seems like an elevation for mankind.

 

 

 

 

 

What good is life when you are as bright as a brick?

A & E were even too stupid to reproduce.

 

Many think that the tree of knowledge was the knowledge of everything as everything is subject to good or evil.

Strange that you would think that life without the knowledge of anything would be worth living.

 

"God does not lie, but he hardens hearts, sends delusion "

 

LOL. Is sending or imposing a delusion not imposing a lie?

It is where I come from.

 

Strange that above you would argue with the scholars who wrote the bible as to what words they should be using.

This foolishness I will not bother speaking to. I will let you argue with language scholars.

 

Regards

DL

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

No.  Absolutely not.  This is the dark path of death and madness followed by Mao and Pol Pot.  We don't destroy evil by becoming evil.  That is the lesson from history.  We must learn from the mistakes of the past instead of mindlessly repeating them.

Even worse, religion thrives on persecution.  Ancient Rome made that mistake.  The Roman government took one look at the new cult and tried to destroy it.  Look how that worked out for the world.

Another problem with following in the path of Mao and Pol Pot; is that it turned Atheist into a curse word.  The word is still recovering from these chapters of history.

We should at least make a different mistake.  Persecution does not work.  It's a mistake, it's wrong and it's evil.

:sigh2:     :whist:

Rome killing Christians is greatly exaggerated and as we speak, various countries are both banning Islam altogether or banning some of the dress codes their men impose on their women.

 

If banning immoral religions was not moral or legal, the Branch Davidians would still be in Texas.

 

For a government to allow demonstrably immoral creeds to exist and screw up the moral  thinking the way our friend is screwed up would be outlawed by all moral people.

 

Doing unto others would demand it.

 

Regards

DL

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3 hours ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

Rome killing Christians is greatly exaggerated and as we speak, various countries are both banning Islam altogether or banning some of the dress codes their men impose on their women.

 

If banning immoral religions was not moral or legal, the Branch Davidians would still be in Texas.

 

For a government to allow demonstrably immoral creeds to exist and screw up the moral  thinking the way our friend is screwed up would be outlawed by all moral people.

 

Doing unto others would demand it.

 

Regards

DL

We can also look at the persecution of religion in modern China.  Nothing good will come of this.     :whist:

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You cherry pick, GB.  It's all in the way you read it, isn't it?  Hypocritical at best.

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13 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

We can also look at the persecution of religion in modern China.  Nothing good will come of this.     :whist:

Something good already has just as good came out of banning Branch Dividian in the U.S. and the cults that Canada has banned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDeTNXbu_YA

If the religions like Christianity and Islam were not demonstrably immoral, you would have a point. As is, you protect fraudsters and immoral religious creeds who are both responsible for a lot of deaths. Inquisition and jihad are the tip of their evil ways.

There is no argument that can be made to retain those in our culture.

There is enough trash in Eden already. Only evil people will protect such immoral religions.

 

Regards

DL

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24 minutes ago, cuchulain said:

You cherry pick, GB.  It's all in the way you read it, isn't it?  Hypocritical at best.

Show where and put your argument or be seen as a liar.

 

Regards

DL

Edited by Gnostic Bishop

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11 minutes ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

Something good already has just as good came out of banning Branch Dividian in the U.S.

That never happened. You are misrepresenting history. David Koresh and certain of his followers were accused of criminal activity, and a lot of people died when the feds raided their compound. At no point was simply being a Branch Davidian illegal, and the group still has adherents to this day.

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On 3/15/2016 at 9:04 AM, Gnostic Bishop said:

The bible is one of the most important books on the planet if read properly. It shows man's struggle to find the best rules and laws to live by up to that point in time. It consolidated much of the ancient wisdom for us and just because Christianity misused it and altered some of it's moral thinking does not take away some of the wisdom in it.

 

Regardless of the source, and Christianity did not originate what I quoted, the wisdom is there.

 

Even if Mother Goose had said those words, they would still be good words.

 

Regards

DL

Bold print, there.  If read properly, as I said, originally, yes?  And just because Christianity misused it and altered SOME of it's moral thinking...meaning some of it you agree with and some you don't.  You have stated numerous times there are parts you agree with and don't, or also known as...CHERRY PICKING AT IT'S FINEST!!!!  

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Don't get it, GB.  Are you trying to say I am the hypocritical one, or just agreeing that you were hypocritical at best?

To clarify:  Sometimes I catch myself being hypocritical, then I have to rethink things again.  It happens.  Other times, someone else points out that I am being hypocritical, and I have to rethink things again.  It happens.  It just strikes me as odd that other people don't want to reconsider what they have said, on occasion, if what they have said is hypocritical or wrong.  GB, I point out where you say Dan is cherry picking, and call you on cherry picking.  You then ask me to prove it or be termed a liar, I prove it...with your own words, in this very same topic, which anyone could go back and read...and you don't acknowledge clearly in any way?  Seems you have some thinking to do.

Edited by cuchulain
clarification

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Hey, guys, if you enjoy using this forum, you should probably cut out the name calling. It'll get you banned faster than anything other than pill ads or porn...

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Me thinks, you are correct Mererdog.  Thanks for the point out.  Time to put another person on the ignore list...

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19 hours ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

What good is life when you are as bright as a brick?

Careful there, your denigrating your own ancestors  :)

A & E were even too stupid to reproduce.

No, they had lots of children.. And sense when did sex ever require intelligence?

Many think that the tree of knowledge was the knowledge of everything as everything is subject to good or evil.

Strange that you would think that life without the knowledge of anything would be worth living.

No, it was not the knowledge of everything, but knowledge of the difference between good and evil.

"God does not lie, but he hardens hearts, sends delusion "

LOL. Is sending or imposing a delusion not imposing a lie?

It is where I come from.

No, seeing a mirage is a delusion, but its not a lie. A delusion is simply something that you hope for or want, but its not possible or real. God simply allows people to believe what they're intent on believing.

Strange that above you would argue with the scholars who wrote the bible as to what words they should be using.

It was biblical 'scholars' who assigned the meaning of what Jeremiah was writing about, and in context, "enticed' is more accurate than "deceived". Think about it, why would God deceive his own prophet? Common sense demands a deeper exploration of exactly what Jeremiah was referring to, and it becomes very apparent that God did not lie. If you believe God lied to Jeremiah, please tell me exactly what that lie was?  

 

Regards

DL

 

 

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"No, they had lots of children.. And sense when did sex ever require intelligence?"

Oh my. They did not die as scriptures ay they would.

They reproduced only after they ate of the tree of knowledge. Before that they were too stupid to even know they were naked.

"No, it was not the knowledge of everything, but knowledge of the difference between good and evil."

Name anything that is not subject to good and evil.

Regards

DL

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7 hours ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

Something good already has just as good came out of banning Branch Dividian in the U.S. and the cults that Canada has banned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDeTNXbu_YA

If the religions like Christianity and Islam were not demonstrably immoral, you would have a point. As is, you protect fraudsters and immoral religious creeds who are both responsible for a lot of deaths. Inquisition and jihad are the tip of their evil ways.

There is no argument that can be made to retain those in our culture.

There is enough trash in Eden already. Only evil people will protect such immoral religions.

 

Regards

DL

Interesting videos.  Alright.  Let's take them at face value.   What next?  Expel all Muslims from the United States?  And the Christians?  Maybe the Jews?  What about the Atheists?  Do the Mormons get to stay?  Can "we" tolerate the Hindus?  Who gets to decide?  Where does it stop?

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 5:53 PM, Gnostic Bishop said:
On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 5:53 PM, Gnostic Bishop said:

Esoteric ecumenists like you should be judging the various belief systems and accepting the good while rejecting and criticizing the evil.

 

For evil to grow, all good people need do is not criticize it.

 

Note above how Dan thinks it ok to punish his child for his evil deeds.

 

If you just ignore such then your morality is as corrupt as his as you are allowing evil thinking to just go unchallenged.

 

You seem to be allowing your soft heart to guide you to immorality.

 

Regards

DL

 

 

Esoteric ecumenists like you should be judging the various belief systems and accepting the good while rejecting and criticizing the evil.

 

For evil to grow, all good people need do is not criticize it.

 

Note above how Dan thinks it ok to punish his child for his evil deeds.

 

If you just ignore such then your morality is as corrupt as his as you are allowing evil thinking to just go unchallenged.

 

You seem to be allowing your soft heart to guide you to immorality.

 

Regards

DLP

 

 

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 5:53 PM, Gnostic Bishop said:

Esoteric ecumenists like you should be judging the various belief systems and accepting the good while rejecting and criticizing the evil.

 

For evil to grow, all good people need do is not criticize it.

 

Note above how Dan thinks it ok to punish his child for his evil deeds.

 

If you just ignore such then your morality is as corrupt as his as you are allowing evil thinking to just go unchallenged.

 

You seem to be allowing your soft heart to guide you to immorality.

 

Regards

DL

 

 

My spiritual life is guided by the following principles: ":Avoid all evil, cultivate the good, purify your mind: this sums up the teachings of the Buddhas"  (The Dhammapada, verse 183).  You should try it sometimes; it is a better path than criticizing evil.

Hermano Luis

  

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I have always believed that it is better to live by example.

I have to ask myself always: "How can I do good?  How can I avoid evil?  How can I purify my mind?  Let my life be a sermon.

Hermano Luis

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3 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Interesting videos.  Alright.  Let's take them at face value.   What next?  Expel all Muslims from the United States?  And the Christians?  Maybe the Jews?  What about the Atheists?  Do the Mormons get to stay?  Can "we" tolerate the Hindus?  Who gets to decide?  Where does it stop?

Where does it stop?

That would be up to the courts. Last time it stopped at the lies of I D.

I think Muslim's, because some put Sharia ahead of all other governments, should renounce their immoral Sharia and pledge allegiance to the constitution and U.S. government or yes, get the hell out of the countries.

Where should it stop. At moral religions and not the garbage mainstream religions we have to suffer today.

I would offer choices. Reform to a moral creed and teaching or close shop. Judges and politicians would of course put their thoughts to the process but I would say that none of the fantasy based religions should be tolerated. All they produce is idol worshipers like Christianity and Islam and they bring a lot of death and misery to the world.

 

Regards

DL

 

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14 minutes ago, emalpaiz said:

 

My spiritual life is guided by the following principles: ":Avoid all evil, cultivate the good, purify your mind: this sums up the teachings of the Buddhas"  (The Dhammapada, verse 183).  You should try it sometimes; it is a better path than criticizing evil.

Hermano Luis

  

That seem self-centered and avoiding evil means letting it grow.

Your way is certainly not doing unto others.

 

Regards

DL

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1 hour ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

Where does it stop?

That would be up to the courts. Last time it stopped at the lies of I D.

I think Muslim's, because some put Sharia ahead of all other governments, should renounce their immoral Sharia and pledge allegiance to the constitution and U.S. government or yes, get the hell out of the countries.

Where should it stop. At moral religions and not the garbage mainstream religions we have to suffer today.

I would offer choices. Reform to a moral creed and teaching or close shop. Judges and politicians would of course put their thoughts to the process but I would say that none of the fantasy based religions should be tolerated. All they produce is idol worshipers like Christianity and Islam and they bring a lot of death and misery to the world.

 

Regards

DL

 

We -- Humanity -- do not embrace evil for the sake of being evil.  Usually, we do awful things for good reasons.  Sometimes, really noble reasons.  Generally "we" do the worst things for the best reasons.  It is the lesson of history.  Persecution is a mistake.

Things change.  Power shifts.  The wheel turns.  The hunter has a way of becoming the hunted.

 

:whist:

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36 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

We -- Humanity -- do not embrace evil for the sake of being evil.  Usually, we do awful things for good reasons.  Sometimes, really noble reasons.  Generally "we" do the worst things for the best reasons.  It is the lesson of history.  Persecution is a mistake.

Things change.  Power shifts.  The wheel turns.  The hunter has a way of becoming the hunted.

 

:whist:   

 

 I would like to add something.  I would not, for anything, see Dan56 persecuted for his Christian beliefs.  A world that would go after him would go after me.  If Dan is not free to be his type of Christian; then I am not free to be what I am.  That is how it works.  We are all free to follow our path, or nobody is free.

 

 :sigh2:

 

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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5 hours ago, Gnostic Bishop said:

Where does it stop?

That would be up to the courts. Last time it stopped at the lies of I D.

I think Muslim's, because some put Sharia ahead of all other governments, should renounce their immoral Sharia and pledge allegiance to the constitution and U.S. government or yes, get the hell out of the countries.

Where should it stop. At moral religions and not the garbage mainstream religions we have to suffer today.

I would offer choices. Reform to a moral creed and teaching or close shop. Judges and politicians would of course put their thoughts to the process but I would say that none of the fantasy based religions should be tolerated. All they produce is idol worshipers like Christianity and Islam and they bring a lot of death and misery to the world.

 

Regards

DL

It almost sounds like the government is your god :). You really want politicians to decide what's moral? Asking people to renounce their belief and pledge their allegiance to government sounds somewhat like Nazi Germany. .

When Christianity started, it was the world that brought death and misery to them.. Christ and his apostles were killed, but it didn't stop the belief.

What's the difference between a moral religion and the 'garbage' religions? I suspect if you threw everyone out who didn't measure up to what you consider moral, you'd be left all alone.. Imo, no one is absolutely moral; "All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).

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13 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

Interesting videos.  Alright.  Let's take them at face value.   What next?  Expel all Muslims from the United States?  And the Christians?  Maybe the Jews?  What about the Atheists?  Do the Mormons get to stay?  Can "we" tolerate the Hindus?  Who gets to decide?  Where does it stop?

The Druids were referred to as "the most just of men," but somehow I think they would be some of the first ones that Gnostic Bishop would "vote off the island" :)

"The Druids are considered the most just of men, and on this account they are entrusted with the decision, not only of the private disputes, but of the public disputes as well; so that, in former times, they even arbitrated cases of war and made the opponents stop when they were about to line up for battle, and the murder cases, in particular, had been turned over to them for decision." -Strabo (Greek historian, 64 B.C. - 24 A.D.) 

Bendithion (Blessings),

Gruffydd y Dryw /|\

Edited by Gruffydd y Dryw

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12 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

We -- Humanity -- do not embrace evil for the sake of being evil.  Usually, we do awful things for good reasons.  Sometimes, really noble reasons.  Generally "we" do the worst things for the best reasons.  It is the lesson of history.  Persecution is a mistake.

Things change.  Power shifts.  The wheel turns.  The hunter has a way of becoming the hunted.

 

:whist:

Ridding the community of immoral constructs is hardly doing evil.

 

Regards

DL

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12 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

 

You have talked yourself into believing you can be free but in a species like ours, there is no such think.

We can have some freedom from oppression thanks to our political systems but as Socrates put it, you cannot be free. Who would make your shoes.

 

We have liberty thanks to our Western laws. We do not have, and would not allow anyone freedom. We are only free to follow the rules.

 

Jump into your car and try to exercise freedom on our roads and see how quickly your so called freedom lasts.

 

Regards

DL  

Edited by Gnostic Bishop

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