Coolhand

Exposition of Pneumatology in Lucan Literature

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Coolhand   

I have re-enrolled in the course THE EXPOSITION OF PNEUMATOLOGY IN LUCAN LITERATURE at Global University https://www.globaluniversity.edu/ . Global is a theological distance education school in the Pentecostal tradition and it has several schools: 1) The discipleship and evangelism school; 2) The coursework for credentialing with the Assemblies of God called Berean School of the Bible ; 3) The undergrad school of theology; and 4) The graduate school of theology.

The graduate school of theology has Master of Arts programs in biblical studies, Master of Arts programs in ministerial studies, a Master of Divinity program, and a Doctor of Ministry program. It is an accredited school but obviously not a Harvard or a Princeton. 

I have decided to resume work in the graduate school of theology on the Master of Arts in ministerial studies: Leadership Concentration program. I have completed all of the core courses except this one, and I have taken two electives: Hebrew 1 and Hebrew 2, which I completed at Reformed Theological Seminary virtual campus and have transferred into this program. I do not plan on doing the thesis track, but rather doing the coursework and doing a capstone paper. I have quit this program twice because I really don't like the distance education model, but only have 5 classes until I graduate so it made sense to tough it out and just finish it.

I plan on putting some thoughts here for discussion as I go through. 

If you know of a good book that deals with Luke's quotations and allusions of the Old Testament please share. This class deals a lot with Luke's usage of Old Testament and intertestamental writings, but the coursework limits the discussion to the differences between Evangelical and Pentecostal scholars/writers. 

One of the big topics that is dealt with in first unit is the issue of historical precedent from narrative portions quoted by NT writers of the OT, and NT narratives as normative patterns for today's believers/Christians. This always seems to be subjective. My angle currently is to discover how the writer of Luke uses historical precedent and then compare that to the course reading material.

More to come.......

 

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Pete   

Hi Cool. I know that the church you belong to has a strong view of Lucan's view on atonement as described in Luke. I was wonder if at the level you were studying if there was other views that may also be considered. I consider the work of people like C.H. Dodd who although acknowledge Jesus' death as essential to the divine plan also did not see it as anyway connected to the atonement. https://bible.org/seriespage/1-atonement-lucan-theology-recent-discussion

I would be interested on hearing of some of these views.  As you are no doubt aware I have struggle with the idea of a God who necessitated a death in order to forgive. It just seem to me to be the actions of a divine being who cannot forgive unless someone or something suffers.  It sounds to me like a dysfunctional character rather than a all powerful God. I say this with respect and knowing you would disagree with my perspective but I would be interested on the views of these other theologians. Your thoughts? 

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Coolhand   
4 hours ago, Pete said:

Hi Cool. I know that the church you belong to has a strong view of Lucan's view on atonement as described in Luke. I was wonder if at the level you were studying if there was other views that may also be considered. I consider the work of people like C.H. Dodd who although acknowledge Jesus' death as essential to the divine plan also did not see it as anyway connected to the atonement. https://bible.org/seriespage/1-atonement-lucan-theology-recent-discussion

I would be interested on hearing of some of these views.  As you are no doubt aware I have struggle with the idea of a God who necessitated a death in order to forgive. It just seem to me to be the actions of a divine being who cannot forgive unless someone or something suffers.  It sounds to me like a dysfunctional character rather than a all powerful God. I say this with respect and knowing you would disagree with my perspective but I would be interested on the views of these other theologians. Your thoughts? 

Hey Pete. As far as I can see in Luke, his point for recording the death of Jesus was to show that Jesus had been a prophet rejected by the people. Luke has a theme of showing fulfillment of what he read in the Septuagint, to show that Jesus fulfilled the points that he had selected from that text as far Jesus being the anointed prophet and the restoration of prophetic activity among the Jews.

From what I understand by reading Luke and what others say about the writing that they credit to Luke, being "filled with the spirit" was a Septuagint phrase that Luke used often, but not in a filled with the spirit as in how John or Paul would use it; like sanctification or salvation. Luke used it more in the sense of a vocational empowering: "so and so was filled with the spirit and then__________." Restored prophetic activity, being filled with the spirit; these seem to be the emphasis of Luke to show fulfillment of earlier prophets to point to Jesus at the anointed and soon to be rejected prophet. Atonement is not really mentioned.

I would agree that Luke is missing the clear element of atonement, which is going to cause some people to try to find it indirectly so that they can claim the Luke does hold to that theology, for some reason.

In regard to church, I currently do not belong to one, only the christian motorcycle club and this one here (ULC). In regard to school, I could assert or argue anything I want as long as I demonstrate a mastery of the required reading for the course; I only have to meet and be able to explain the course objectives, I don't necessarily have to agree with the conclusions.

The lack of atonement in Luke, honestly, I never really noticed it until you brought that up. I guess I had always assumed it was in there. In regard to gospels, John was the one I had used the most, then Mark, then Matthew, then Luke. I like Luke though, because it does have a different point of view. 

I am looking through this course material and it is unlikely that atonement will even come up, the main sections are: I The hermeneutics of historical narrative; II The Holy Spirit in the Gospel of Luke: Jesus as the Anointed Prophet; III The Holy Spirit in Acts: The Disciples as Spirit Baptized Prophets; IV The Holy Spirit in Acts: The Acts of the community of prophets. The main focus is on the prophetic element.

If I come across any atonement discussions or comments in the course material,  I will share them with you. By the way, I spent some time watching the Yale University lectures that you posted yesterday. That is some really good material. Thanks for sharing that.

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Pete   

The article presents the fulfilment of Psalm 53. I know many describe Jesus as fulfilling this but I understand the the Jews saw this as being about them rather than someone coming in another 800 years. I am with you on the business as having to justify what one is saying with the available research. It does take a person to avenues they never considered before. Dan often talks about keeping it simple and adhering to what the bible appears to be saying. I just cannot do this. However, I respect your point of view.  Education is not about just what one thinks themselves but being able to think in many ways and being pluralist in recognising we do not all agree. I think the thing that eventually got me was when I began to think that no loving God could of written some of the things in the book. I know there is disagreement on this point. Yet as you say one takes the journey and sees what it brings to one. One does not have to agree with it but it does broaden one's outlook. For me it brought doubt - to others it brings faith. I do not personally dismiss it all but I just cannot accept the idea of a God as described in the bible. Yet, it is my roots. I wish the best on your course and hope what I have said does not lead others to a debate on what one should or should not believe. Respect to you..

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Coolhand   

That respect is mutual my friend. I have enjoyed your friendship and conversation over the 15 something years that I have known you, and I appreciate the patience and kindness you have had with me over the years.

I noticed that many of the writers in the article mentioned Isaiah 53. The New Testament writers have always seemed to interpret that to be talking about Jesus, where the people that the text was written to interpret it otherwise. Luke also interprets Is 53 to be talking about Jesus, but in my opinion focusing only on as being rejected and then killed.

There was a time in my Christian walk that I had what I thought was "the answers" to many questions that I now am not so sure about. As you were saying about education and its effect of opening new avenues of thought I totally agree with. It seems the more a person "knows", if they are completely honest, they become aware of how much they do not know. There are sermons that I have preached in a cavalier manner that I look back on and now pray that people will forget most if not all of what I had said.

I recently received a "last chance" to renew a subscription to a theological resource, and the carrot dangle was the different modules that they now offer: Baptist theology, Reformed theology, Pentecostal theology, etc. These different flavors of theological thought, in my opinion, are not advancing the honest study of theology but are rather fueling apologetic type debate and enforcing the barriers to the discovery of the truth, and barriers to true brotherly fellowship. Of course to this company it is about making money by providing an alleged service or resource. 

There are things that are written in the Bible that give me great comfort and there are things written in the Bible, I agree with you about and wonder how a loving God could have "inspired" some of the things written to be written. Or, if God had anything to do with inspiring some of it but is given the credit for it, and you know as when as I do, when someone claims that God told them this or that, the conversation is over. Then it turns into a "bow in submission to God" thing. Which then presents another problem, which is: "Is God telling all these different people different things?" Somehow I doubt it.

I would argue that keeping it simple is anything but simple.

 

 

 

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Pete   

Very much agree. It was all the insisting that everything is so and we have to trust it that led me to eventually walk away. The discussion was on suffering and you know in my job I have seen a lot. The way some would try to deny or justify it was just one step I could not take. I knew then it was not reason but just repeated dogma and would be defended to the every extreme. That and the persecution some have for gay people and some of the bible's notes  on slavery and I just could not hold onto the idea that the bible is God's word from cover to cover. Anyway I am drifting. Best of luck on your course and I hope it brings many blessing. 

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