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Well I gotta stand and applaud that answer ! Next thought on that though - as that solitary Tom-Cat or

in this case Jon-cat - - - do you reach out to others when you are able to do so?

If you did, you were by some definition ministering to others, yes?

If someone saw that and followed your example - would you not then be leading others?

von

So if I were to join the one and only church of Fred Frump (being the founder and sole member) - and were therefor God, what is my purpose for existence?

At any point that I interact with another being (be that a different God or a mere mortal) is there any obligation upon me to

care for or about the existence of anything or anyone else?

thx

von

You are, already, God, Von Noble. Once you realize that you stand alone in your belief. Your obligations are whatever you wish them to be. After all, you are God. Edited by Brother Kaman
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Well I gotta stand and applaud that answer ! Next thought on that though - as that solitary Tom-Cat or

in this case Jon-cat - - - do you reach out to others when you are able to do so?

If you did, you were by some definition ministering to others, yes?

If someone saw that and followed your example - would you not then be leading others?

von

I have friends on the path. They have different paths and they are as much examples to me as I am to them. It is good to have friends on the path. It's not the same as having followers.

:D

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I am a Germanic Heathen and I've been on this "path" for a little over seven years. It's good to hear from you Mark. I hope things are well.

they are well,thank you.

i guess it has been that long since you took a different direction on your path.thank you for answering my question.

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Thanks for the welcome greeting.

I had to go do a bit of quick checking to catch up :derisive: (orthopraxy being a new word to me) ....also the term Germanic Heathen. All good for me to go and learn some new things. So I thank you.

I can more fully appreciate your POV that the tolerance to incoming other religions, ended up causing a crack in the armor, as it were, to the closed cohesive group before that exposure arrived. As is often the case when a closed society experiences integration. Your point is taken.

Re: the POV that the clergy's authority being derived by acclaim or by consent of the congregation/tribe/community - I would agree that is usually the case. One can be anointed, ordained or titled, maybe even elected to be the leader - but you can only lead or govern if the followers -- in fact, follow the lead.

Coercion may be applied - but is not indefinitely successful. (over-throws, self destruction, implosion and revolution are a few of the eventual outcomes of unwanted leadership)

To that end it seems the path of the assented clergy in your faith has a commonality (granted unique to that one congregation) but a commonality nonetheless to others (actually not that different than the current closed society of the Amish in which each small community adopts its own variation of the faith and elects/chooses their own elders) - there is a loose tie between them but enough variation that each has a slightly different identity.

They too resist infiltration and while blending - stand apart from the larger societies in which they reside

world-wide. They are not just located in Ohio, PA and Iowa these days.

Thanks for the lesson along the way in this thread, Stormbringer. It seems as if you do have a solitary minister in terms of ONE and only one clergy figure for each unique congregation (to the extent those terms convey the loose conceptualization to which the rest of us can grasp it)

von

I am always glad when you grace us with your presence and wisdom Von and You're Welcome :)

The Amish actually are a good example for an analogy. They are an insular community and while heavily christianized their society is descended from and contains many germanic elements. Heathens today are practicing and reconstructing a pre-christian religiosity, worldview, and culture based upon tribalism. With our groups we are attempting to build a "tribe" and society within society. While integrated in modern times of course as we are modern people I actually have large Amish and Mennonite communities where I live in Upstate NY by the Adirondacks.

"It seems as if you do have a solitary minister in terms of ONE and only one clergy figure for each unique congregation (to the extent those terms convey the loose conceptualization to which the rest of us can grasp it) "

This statement I take minor issue with. As the op and ther term "solitary minister" refers to a minister without any congregation and not just a sole minister of a congregation. I do see what you are getting at however. Another issue is that this doesn't apply to Heathenry. In Arch-Heathen times they had priests of a specific cult that mainly was responsible for the upkeep of a holy site such as a grove or the rare temple. Most of what could be considered a priest was also the tribal leader or chieftain. This can also be seen into the middle ages such as in Iceland with the term "Godhi" that some heathens prefer to use. Which was a chieftain that also functioned as a high priest. Going back 2,000 years to the time of the Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus when he wrote "Germania" we see this same basic model where a head of state performed all public priestly duties for the community and tribe but in the household the male head was responsible for the priestly duties and household religion. A religion which was private and could and perhaps often differed from the state religious practices and beliefs. Today this basic model generally holds as most Heathens practice a household religion that is kept for the most part private and only for select people to have knowledge of. In larger more public groups while often there will be one person taking on a priestly role this is not necessary or required. Some groups have a Lord or Chief of some kind that also takes on the priestly function. A group may have a designated member that fulfills this role. Some groups have nobody officially dedicated to this role and just the person who performs said functions when they occur. Some groups have no set person for the role or function and simply take turns. Each group develops their own specific. what is commonly referred to as, Sidu or Thew which loosely translates to custom. It is not up to anyone outside this group to tell them any different or what they should be doing. We have other concepts that come into play such as inningart and utengart but I think you'll get the picture.

they are well,thank you.

i guess it has been that long since you took a different direction on your path.thank you for answering my question.

You're Welcome Mark. As you know I'm always willing to take the time. I'm glad things are well for you and that you still take the time to post.

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  • 1 month later...
On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2015 at 8:27 AM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

I have friends on the path. They have different paths and they are as much examples to me as I am to them. It is good to have friends on the path. It's not the same as having followers.

:D

I loved those words.  They express what I feel, and how I walk my spiritual path (if it can be called a spiritual path).  Thank you!

Hermano Luis

 

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