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RowanWolf

Ordaining Selection?

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Would it be beneficial for the credibility of our ordainships and the ULC itself, to have a slightly stricter acceptance procedure? My reasoning;

Being a new member to this forum, I have noticed a couple of comments of people being ordained 'for a laugh' and no spiritual basis whatsoever.

There has also been a comment about 'cerial box' ordainings - in other words, handing them out like sweets to anyone at all.

Whilst it is great that any non tradional religion is accepted, maybe it SHOULD just be for those that have a spiritual intent, for example, send a brief synopsis of their chosen path when applying as I did?

Blessings

Rowan

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Possibly, but credibility is not the reason for our foundation. The ULC was founded out of frustration with the existing credible organizations, and for the freedom of all to practice whatever they believe, regardless of its credibility to others. Legality is all that is necessary anyway.

Besides the idea was that everyone already has the right to act as a minister, ordination is just the recognition of that fact. Add to this the idea that everyone has a right to decide what their religion is about, and you have a very libertarian anarchistic organization.

Still this does not prevent any branch of the organization from becoming more mainstream.

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And, everyone has the right to play religion, spirituality, God, ordination or Saturday morning cartoons for laughs if that is where their life has led them. Some have said they were ordained for laughs and THEN felt a calling or desire to take it to the spiritual level. Who knows what lies in the heart of another?

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In a televised interview back in the 70s, the Rev. Hensley of the ULC stated that he issued ordinations to anybody and everybody in order to combat the IRS' discriminatory practice of granting tax-exempt status to some churches and denying it to others (specifically the ULC). "Religion" had nothing to do with it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/jesus-saves-become-a-minister-save-on-taxes/

Edited by Songster

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Who will be the gatekeeper and who will get left out? The Atheists? The Agnostics? The Pagans? The Muslims? The Hindus? The Jews? The Satanists? The Buddhists? The Christians?

No. I want no gatekeeper and no gate. It would stop being the Universal Life Church.

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It is admirable that some folks desire for the ULC is to be seen and become more "mainstream", an idea I'm all for. I also see the problems that arise when a "gatekeeper" is put in place.

The fact you have taken the time to write up a synopsis about your chosen path is admirable RowanWolf, but let's never forget who started the ULC and for what reasons/rationale as Panpariel pointed out. I've talked to many ULC ordained persons who have taken their calling to a Higher Level and created legitimate, legal church structures out of their once "tongue in cheek" beginnings....I've also talked with others who started with a legal, purposeful intent and simply went ha-ha banana's with the idea...to each their own I think applies here!

Trying to get the ULC to become more than it is, is quite the individual process I believe. I'm thankful we have individuals of all sorts involved so let's allow those who desire nothing more to be content and those who require more to develop that for themselves!

Blessings of Peace,

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Would it be beneficial for the credibility of our ordainships and the ULC itself, to have a slightly stricter acceptance procedure? My reasoning;

Being a new member to this forum, I have noticed a couple of comments of people being ordained 'for a laugh' and no spiritual basis whatsoever.

There has also been a comment about 'cerial box' ordainings - in other words, handing them out like sweets to anyone at all.

Whilst it is great that any non tradional religion is accepted, maybe it SHOULD just be for those that have a spiritual intent, for example, send a brief synopsis of their chosen path when applying as I did?

Blessings

Rowan

I understand why you might initially think that rowan, but as you can see, there is the vision of the founder and his position that ordained ministers are ordained ministers. and then there's all of us :)

remembering back to my first few visits here, I was dumbfounded by some of the things that I read. I couldn't reconcile what I was reading with doing only that which is right - until I thought about it ;) and until I was politely nudged, okay shoved towards, things I hadn't considered.

welcome by the way! :)

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Blessings and thank you for the responses everyone, I had my own views and these obviously shared with some initially by the sounds of it

Oh, Jonathan, in answer to your question, I wasn't saying an actual 'spiritual' path would be excluded, it would only be those with no spiritual leanings at all (or getting ordained for mockery purposes, if you will}

However it was answered, so onward down the corridor. :)

Rowan

Edited by RowanWolf

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Rowan, Back in 1978, all I did was to ask what the ordination requirements were. I was astonished to receive my certificate of ordination by return mail. Nobody was more astonished than I -- when I found myself growing into it. I was not looking for my path at that time. My path found me.

Who is to say who has "spiritual Leanings?" :)

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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yep, to change it would be against Kirbys ideals,

we wouldn't be ULC anymore, we would be something else.

that's why you see offshoot ULC churches thou,

they can operate as they wish. like that "catholic" group in FL,

he said Kirby was a devil worshiper. which is weird cause I read most of Kirbys books and never seen that. I became catholic because they was no catholic ULC branch, yet. well, none with verifiable apostolic succession.

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It's a nice idea but goes against the ideals of Rev. Kirby. Also, when I became ordained, I was not serious about it. I am more serious about it now.

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And, of course, it may well be that a god, or God might want a few not too serious ministers mocking the rest.. One can never tell with g/Gods...

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And, of course, it may well be that a god, or God might want a few not too serious ministers mocking the rest.. One can never tell with g/Gods...

Fred Phelps, the founder and leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, died today. I suspect he was a serious minister that no one took seriously, including God. :)

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My reason(s) & motivation to request ordination-- I was formally ordained in 1982 at age 20 while pastoring a very small Baptist church in the country during my college years in Kentucky. It was my 3rd year in the ministry, after being formally licensed at age 17. At that naive time in my life, I felt very strong in my convictions that I was called to the ministry. My experiences in spirituality were very limited at that time, therefore choosing to be a "spiritual leader" simply meant becoming a Baptist minister, which I did. It was really the only brand of spiritual path with which I was reasonably familiar, though I was from an Indian family (off-reservation) and it was not a very popular time to be very open as Indian in the '60s and '70s. As the years moved on, along with my spiritual and life experiences, and as I reunited with my Native American roots and resumed practicing tribal ceremonial spiritual activities, AND as I became highly disenchanted with mainstream Christianity in general, and Baptist in particular, I UN-chose to be a minister. My ordination was never rescinded. I consider my life to have remained in the more general area of ministry, as my careers have always been in helping and service occupations, e.g. teacher, licensed psychotherapist for nearly 30 years, trainer, massage therapist, writer/author, and frequent volunteer and philanthropist.

Additionally, through the years I discovered Unitarian Universalist fellowships in 3 different states wherein I resided. The openness and acceptance of UU fellowships became my spiritual home and safe place... second only to my tribal ceremonial grounds and 4 annual tribal town ceremonies. I have been exploring and considering pursuing ordination as a U.U. minister. However, and unfortunately, although UU operates as a non-creedal, open, accepting, welcoming and low-rules spiritual path, when one wants to become an ordained minister within the U.U., many rules, creeds, requirements and bureaucracy elements are somehow awakened by the overseers of UU ministers on a national level. I found that disappointing to discover. I'm not sure presently where I'll be going with that. In this small town I live in... 60 miles from the closest UU.... some spiritual friends and I have been discussing and I believe we will be starting a layperson led U.U. "emerging congregation".

Therefore, while I have been a "closeted ordained Baptist minister" for 32 years, and I never "lost" that ordination... and, while I am exploring becoming a U.U. minister with ordination at present (though I'm not very willing to jump through the hoops for the U.U. Ministerial Credentialing Guidelines), I decided to request and obtain this ULC ordination earlier this year, in case I wished to use the credential for marriages, civil unions, funerals, less restrictive visiting of hospitalized, etc. I also wanted to have that "set apart" credential as my friends and I explore starting some spiritual gathering for those of us who are very open-minded, accepting, welcoming, and non-creed required. I was quite thrilled for my ordination request to be granted by the ULC, and felt a renewed energy about re-entering formal "non-closeted" ministry.

I am really hoping to meet other like-minded, soulmate friends here who have similar interests in this type of less-restrictive ministry, and I hope to meet other Natives on these forums. Also, if any of you are in Kentucky (or nearby states--- as I'm only 35 miles north of the TN border), I'd love to meet on here and become more acquainted.

Thanks for listening, friends!

Rev. WolfChaser (which is my given Creek Indian name)

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WolfChaser, you are in the right path. We stand for freedom of thought and ethical living. We do not put restrictions on our spiritual views.

Hermano Luis

Moriviví Hermitage

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Muchas gracias, Hermano for your kind remarks.

Happy journey on your path,

WolfChaser

~~"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."~~

~~Plato

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