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Belyn Mawr

The "w" Word For Male Witches

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Hello,

I have labeled myself a classic male Witch for some time, but I have decided to begin referring to myself as a Warlock instead. I know many in the Witchcraft community (especially Wiccans) cringe at the use of the term and consider it perjorative. (Yet my favorite book on non-Wiccan Witchcraft, Mastering Witchcraft by Paul Huson is subtitiled "A Practical Guide for Witches, Warlocks, and Covens.") Some cite an etymology that renders it as "oath breaker" from the Old English waerloga. Some people are now referencing a newer etymology deriving the term from the Norse vardlokkur meaning "spirit song" or maybe "spirit caller." In pre-modern Scotland the term was frequently used to mean cunning man or "white Witch" who was generally a benevolent magical practitioner. Whatever its true origins, it has come to simply mean a male Witch. I have decided to call myself a Celtic Warlock from this point on rather than Celtic classic male Witch. It is more concise, and most people are familiar with the term courtesy of the television show Bewitched. (Paul Lynde was hysterical as Uncle Arthur :) .) I respect the right of others to reject the term, and I hope others will respect my right to utilize it.

Edited by Belenos

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I see and hear language, I'm not a College Graduate, in Honolulu, I see many names and their spellings. People get nasty when you say the W wrong, most of the time one should say the W as a V sound in Hawaiian. I'm find it curious that W is not called double V. Hear and see around other examples and how people get hostile about saying OreGUN or OreGone.

I fought for freedom and freespeach, too many cop an attitude if you are foriger and goo-up a pornunciation, freaks, right?

hermanudics

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I, too, fought for freedom of speech as well as our other dwindling freedoms. That said, I also tend to look upon those who do not bother to learn basic grammar in speech or spelling in writing as being either less educated or at the least, too lazy to care. I don't take these sorts of people nearly as seriously as I would if they would at least take time to use a spell check on their computer's word processing program. Pronunciation is another matter. There are many words that have so many different ways to pronounce by looking at them. Ore gun and Ore gone are a good example. If one was to spell it Oregun, however, I would take issue, not with the offender personally. but in my own mind. Mind you, this is only MY opinion. I have riled up many a forum with this opinion and have been called many dark and black things for it.

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Hello....

Some cite an etymology that renders it as "oath breaker" from the Old English waerloga. Some people are now referencing a newer etymology deriving the term from the Norse vardlokkur meaning "spirit song" or maybe "spirit caller." In pre-modern Scotland the term was frequently used to mean cunning man or "white Witch" who was generally a benevolent magical practitioner. Whatever its true origins, it has come to simply mean a male Witch.

I've been to several lectures on the Old Norse mythos and etymology and do recall the värdlökkur label from a Ziemke talk (1996/7?) regarding the old and new Pagan used terms such as "priest, priestess, drightens, vitkis, warlocks and witches".

I think one thing that troubles me the most over all the controversy of some "labels" is the fact it becomes academic spew and drivel rather than anything qualitative and enhancing to one's education. One text that summed that up for me was the Glyfaginning (Flyting of Glyfli - Edda) and when things are compared one to another we find it's impossible to say which is better or best or best of the best...which of course is the whole process behind the flyting in the first place....but I digress....

Guess the point I'm going for in a long, round'about way, Belenos, is call yourself Warlock or Varlock, male witch or vitch...as long as you are clear on what the term means to you, you have a winner!

Blessings of Peace,

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I've been to several lectures on the Old Norse mythos and etymology and do recall the värdlökkur label from a Ziemke talk (1996/7?) regarding the old and new Pagan used terms such as "priest, priestess, drightens, vitkis, warlocks and witches".

I think one thing that troubles me the most over all the controversy of some "labels" is the fact it becomes academic spew and drivel rather than anything qualitative and enhancing to one's education. One text that summed that up for me was the Glyfaginning (Flyting of Glyfli - Edda) and when things are compared one to another we find it's impossible to say which is better or best or best of the best...which of course is the whole process behind the flyting in the first place....but I digress....

Guess the point I'm going for in a long, round'about way, Belenos, is call yourself Warlock or Varlock, male witch or vitch...as long as you are clear on what the term means to you, you have a winner!

Blessings of Peace,

I agree with your take on academia. It seems sometimes they perpetuate arguments on many minute points just for the purpose of having something to discuss or something on which to publish a paper. BTW, I am aware that the term Druid (Dryw - Welsh or Drui - Irish) might be culturally appropriate for a Celtic Pagan, but in the modern Pagan community it no longer conveys the concept of the path I follow. Warlock seems to better resonate with me on an emotional level. Besides, I speak English as my primary language, and I am a British Isles mutt with English and Viking ancestry as well as Celtic. Anyway, I appreciate your support :) .

Edited by Belenos

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I think it matter most what you do, not what you call yourself.

The Pagan/Witch community, to be honest is not worth much lately. Best to spend your energy with witches/warlocks/pagans that accept you no matter what.

Ignore the rest.

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I agree with your take on academia. It seems sometimes they perpetuate arguments on many minute points just for the purpose of having something to discuss or something on which to publish a paper. BTW, I am aware that the term Druid (Dryw - Welsh or Drui - Irish) might be culturally appropriate for a Celtic Pagan, but in the modern Pagan community it no longer conveys the concept of the path I follow. Warlock seems to better resonate with me on an emotional level. Besides, I speak English as my primary language, and I am a British Isles mutt with English and Viking ancestry as well as Celtic. Anyway, I appreciate your support :) .

:unsure: Slowly put the dictionary down, quietly back away and don't make any threatening moves :rofl:

Was it here or the other ULC site the argument came up about "Druid" vs. "Pagan"? Pete, Bro Kaman you remember?

Anyway the accusation was of making sweeping and broad acceptance of the term "Druid" which only meant a small sect of particular belief/acts Celts...not a generalized term meant to encompass...blah de blah blah...just exactly what we're talking about here.

There is no doubt that certain things have specific meanings in certain circles and then a whole other set of meanings within the general populace...say "Druid" to a football stadium full of folks and the picture of a wizardy looking fellow with long staff that does magic appears in the minds of most folks. In a small group of academia it will be the specific and exacting picture of what a "druid" truly was:

A druid was a member of the priestly class among the Celtic peoples of Gaul, Britain, Ireland, and possibly elsewhere during the Iron Age. Very little is known about the ancient druids. They left no written accounts of themselves and the only evidence is a few descriptions left by Greek, Roman and various scattered authors and artists, as well as stories created by later medieval Irish writers.

Yeah, I can only recount what I said earlier Belenos, focus on what description and meaning you put on the term you label your path as and the heck with all the dissenters and nay-sayers. In certain circles my title of Vitki is often challenged as there is no "official record" of its ancient use...well except for esoteric circles that are hard pressed to reveal their information to outsiders, therefore anything and everything from them is non-sense...according to some.

You have our support here Belenos and we appreciate your taking the time to define things for us.

Blessings of Peace,

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-at- Atwater Vitki,

Although many of us disagree on various things, I have always found the ULC in general and this forum in particular to be supportive. It is much appreciated :) .

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The meaning of Warlock is often referred to as 'Oath Breaker' hence the sharp intake of breath you occasionaly get from others. I personally like the word and does give credibility to the confusion over witch -male witch, much akin to the nurse - male nurse confusion.

Whilst I just class myself as witch, I have been referred to as witch, warlock, wizard, Rowan, hey you!, heathen, wierdo and freak in the past. So people will always call you different things. You call yourself whatever you feel comfortable with, its only really the hard line purists whom take offense these days.

Blessed be.

Rowan.Wolf

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The meaning of Warlock is often referred to as 'Oath Breaker' hence the sharp intake of breath you occasionaly get from others. I personally like the word and does give credibility to the confusion over witch -male witch, much akin to the nurse - male nurse confusion.

Whilst I just class myself as witch, I have been referred to as witch, warlock, wizard, Rowan, hey you!, heathen, wierdo and freak in the past. So people will always call you different things. You call yourself whatever you feel comfortable with, its only really the hard line purists whom take offense these days.

Blessed be.

Rowan.Wolf

:thumbu:

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I prrfer the word sinister or magus. the word witch is prefered by the wiccs.s or those who practices the trre fold law and the upright pentegram. i heard of the term of warlock in some of my researches but the warlock isn't true but a myth.

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I totally agree that it's what you do no what you say you are.

And I wouldn't worry about being called a fluffy bunny by the mainstream magickal community. I was called a fluffy bunny by a local high priestess because although I do acknowledge the bad in life - I still look on the bright side of things and used positive thinking in my spell work(Law of Attraction/Prayer/Mind).

I'd absolutely love to tell you that I have seen my prayers get answered and the things I focused on come to fruition. It doesn't work for everything because I haven't mastered those things yet - and I don't always get what I ask for. Rather, I get what I need and answers of either waiting or maybe wanting something else.

I am not a fluffy bunny by any means and neither are you.

Keep practicing kindness and compassion for others - yourself included - and be what you were meant to be.

And if you want to call yourself a Warlock then by the Gods do that.

EDIT: And the people worth fellowshipping with are the ones who accept you despite whatever title you give yourself.

Edited by FreyjaWorship

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Hi Freya Worship,

Thank you for your post. I predate the term "fluffy bunny" being used. I started off as a Wiccan back in 1988, but my beliefs have changed over the years (after studying other forms of Witchcraft as well as Druidry and Rosicrucianism). Now I practice Classic or Traditional Witchcraft. When I started, at least in the area where I lived, there was no magical community as such. (I had to drive 45 miles to be able to attend a coven meeting.) It was mainly solitary practice and independent study. Communication with Neopagan groups, courses, and magazines were all snail-mail only. The words Wicca and Witchcraft were used interchangeably and bashing new Witches or those with different ideas certainly wasn't the norm. It seems as if the Internet, which has brought us so close together, has also creatd a few social monsters as well. I tire of making posts (not meaning here at the ULC Forum) where every point is contested because it does not adhere to the party line of the current Neopagan or Witchcraft community. BTW, I am afraid prayers and spells don't always work no matter how experienced a practitioner one is, sometimes things are simply Fate or the will of the Gods. As the psychic Sylvia Browne used to say, "God always answers prayers, but sometimes he says no."

Your "Almighty Floating Pancakes of Destiny" makes me hungry for IHOP or The Village Inn :) .

Edited by Belenos

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I said that I get answers when I pray and do witchcraft. It doesn't mean I always get my way. Of course I have had "no" plenty of times. I just use that as a reason to reflect on what I want and why I want it. Then I rearrange things or let it go or accept that the Will that is higher than my own has something better in store for me. (:

And I loved Sylvia and reading her books. Yeah, she made mistakes. Every one does. I'm just not the kind of person to make a celebrity - despite how talented - higher than That which is higher than all of us. She's not going to take place of my concept of God(s).

And you predate fluffy bunny? Whoaaaa~

That's too cool, dawd.

And the Pancakes of Destiny is basically something I took out of a comedy/spoof of animated short episodes of a video game I played as a kid. The actual game itself is called Secret of Mana and it was for the SNES. The spoof series is called Mana Theater.

You can find the series here: http://www.manatheater.com/

Remember to click on Movie Archive and go to the first episode and watch from there.

I remember being 13-years-old on my 56K modem and it would take like ten or fifteen minutes to load the episodes. Now that I have high speed wireless broadband and try to watch them... Just can't get enough.

And I just recently read something... About how teenage Wiccans feel about their faith and trying to join the Pagan community. They were often told that they weren't experienced enough because of their age when one retorted that a witch at 19 could have been practicing since she was 12 or so and that a 40-year-old could probably have just picked up on the craft.

It was an interesting article. If I find it again, I'll be sure to post it on the forums.

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I was the Pac-Man and Space Invaders generation, but my much younger sister used to play Secret of Mana. Her all-time favorite game(s) was Legend of Zelda. I saw Sylvia Browne at a seminar once, and she was really good "in person." I thinks she had a real gift but unfortunately let commercialism take over. If you come across the article, please do post it. BTW, "dawd?" I'm sure I'm showing my age, all of 44 years, but I am not familiar with the word. Is it like "dude?" :huh: Or is it like "dad" meaning I'm old?

Edited by Belenos

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Haha. I'm sorry. The word dawd seems to fly out of my mouth a lot.

Dawd is actually a word that only I use. It's a mix of the word dude and dawg. I didn't want to sound insulting by saying either when I speak to people so I invented my own word.

Dawd is typically an accent I make at the end of my sentences when referring to a male conversation partner. It's supposed to be endearing.

When I talk to women who are either close to me or are younger, I always call them Babes - avec un ess/with an S.

This is also a way of getting around in conversation if I accidentally forget a person's name.

To call someone who is much older than me in age is inappropriate, in my eyes. But I call guys "dawd" all the time.

But yeah, it's a big accent thing for me.

And I'm not big into the whole Rosicrucian thing because I lack knowledge. I remember being in a Yahoo! group called The Order of the Golden Dawn because I was invited by someone I did not know. They'd often have great conversations via newsletters and emails/forum. However, sadly, when I briefly became Christian I had to leave all my old groups and create new accounts everywhere.

I loved that group. It kind of made me upset, though, when there was an argument about how Wiccans are flimsy and not to be taken seriously because their religion was predated by the Rosicrucians on there. But that goes back to the article I read recently.

Also, back then I didn't say anything about it but now I realize that everyone's path is legitimate and should not be measured by whether they've been on it long or if theirs has as much community credit as someone else's. Does that make any sense? I don't have the big words to describe that.

Edited by FreyjaWorship

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I agree that there are multiple legitimate paths. I made it to the end of the 9th degree with the Rosicrucians before letting my membership lapse, but I prefer to follow the path of Witchcraft. Same thing with Druidry. It's not that I couldn't make the grade; it is just not what I was looking for. People are different and some paths fit some people better. There is no reason for a Rosicrucian to look down upon a Wiccan or a Druid to look down on a Vodouisant, etc. I feel that someone should look for the path that suits him or her, whatever it may be, and follow it with his or her heart :).

Edited by Belenos

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I agree that there are multiple legitimate paths. I made it to the end of the 9th degree with the Rosicrucians before letting my membership lapse, but I prefer to follow the path of Witchcraft. Same thing with Druidry. It's not that I couldn't make the grade; it is just not what I was looking for. People are different and some paths fit some people better. There is no reason for a Rosicrucian to look down upon a Wiccan or a Druid to look down on a Vodouisant, etc. I feel that someone should look for the path that suits him or her, whatever it may be, and follow it with his or her heart :).

The AMORC does not look down on anyone's path. They teach to follow the God of your heart, knowing that our concept of God is as unique as each individual.

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