Did Pope Francis Perform An Exorcism?

[RevJohnG]

I believe he did...not the entire Rite but he liberated this man from something evil.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/05/22/vatican-denies-that-pope-francis-performed-exorcism/?test=latestnews

[Fawzo]

What I see is a man who suffers from some disorder and who probably doesn't get touched in the manner by too many strangers reacting. I dig the guy who claims it was four demons coming out of the guy. Now if only the Pope could heal ignorance.

[RevJohnG]

Well ya burst my bubble! lol

[Fawzo]

Well ya burst my bubble! lol

Well we both see what we are looking for so before your bubble bursts completely lets place both perceptions on the Universal Plausibility Scale and see what happens.......placing the concept the Pope exorcises 4 demons out of an ill person on the left hand side of the scale......now placing the reaction of the man is merely ......<crash> <boom> <glass breaking> .....now the scale is broke in pieces on the floor

Edited May 25, 2013 by Fawzo

[Atwater Vitki]

...and if a bubble bursts and no one is around to hear it do so, does it still make a sound?

an' now.......back to our regularly scheduled posting....

[revtimothybland]

I believe demons do exist. I believe that most are our own making, however.

The human imagination is so powerful that psychosomatic solutions often work BETTER then any other. The man believed that the pope could heal him, and lo, he did. Thus, even if it wasn't a real exorcism, it was an exorcism of sorts. Thus, I do not believe it to be fair to call the so-called expert who claims it was four demons leaving the man ignorant. That's what the man felt when he studied this so-called exorcism.

Anyone who claims someone who believes in spiritual matters like demons is ignorant is, in my opinion, equally ignorant.

[Fawzo]

But there was no exorcism and the Papacy even denies such. The Pope greeted the man in the manner perceived in the video and the ill person responded the way he did. I have seen people with cerebral palsy and other maladies behave in a similar manner when strangers interact with them. The person who reported that 4 demons were cast out wanted to see four demons cast out and reported such.

[revtimothybland]

Yes, I believe that is what I said.

However, just because the Catholic Church denies it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. The church has been denying just about everything except the existence of God for centuries. Even the order of exorcists under their command has had their existence denied time and again. Thus, I don't put much stock in their "expert opinion."

Yes, this was in all likelyhood a purely psychological thing, for both the healed man and the "expert" who claims it was four demons being cast out. But it doesn't make it any less real.

Did the Pope exorcise the man? No. The man exorcised himself by allowing his belief in the Pope's power to take effect. Did the man really have demons to get rid of? That's open for debate. But I do not see anyone who believes it was real as being ignorant.

[Fawzo]

I know quite a few of my friends here believe in Demons and that humans can be possessed by them. I myself do not believe that possession by an outside entity is possible, yet I will say I believe it is a decent plausibility that some malevolent entities may dwell in the vast electromagnetic spectrum that is invisible to the human eye but unable to oppose the free will of men by possessing them.

Science and medicine have diagnosed quite a few of the medical conditions that once were thought to be demon possession by the ignorant such as epilepsy as an example.

My perspective on quite a few other cases may be simple multiple personality disorders. If there are multiple parallel universes, with multiple copies of ourselves out there, some human minds may be wired to pick up energies and frequencies from these other selves and change focus from time to time. Like a radio that is able to pick up a multitude of signals, but usually only focuses on one, our minds may sometimes pick up interference and play multiple channels at once. People with multiple personality disorder may simply have a different wired receiver (their brain) then the rest of. Some of these personalities who may be aware of the condition may be deviant and malicious and come through as demons just for the fun of it.

Head spinning, pea soup spitting, cross humping bona fide demons I find very improbable.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Fawzo

[RevJohnG]

This is plausible but demon possession isn't? Rotfl

My perspective on quite a few other cases may be simple multiple personality disorders. If there are multiple parallel universes with multiple copies of ourselves out there, some human minds may be wired to pick up energies and frequencies from these other selves and change focus from time to time. Like a radio that is able to pick up a multitude of signals but usually only focuses on one our minds may sometimes pick up interference and play multiple channels at once. People with multiple personality disorder may simply have a different wired receiver (their brain) then the rest of. Some of these personalities who may be aware of the condition may be deviant and malicious and come through as demons just for the fun of it.

[revtimothybland]

I'd say that this is equally as plausible as demonic possession.

The point is, none of us know for sure which one of these things was responsible for the man's response.

I saw nothing in the video to indicate the man had CP, or some other condition to make him react that way. Most likely, he just had a psychosomatic religious experience. In Physics, Occam's Razor is a theory that says that the simplest solution is often the correct one, and that IS the simplest, based on evidence.

[Fawzo]

I was looking for information on the medical situation of the man whom the Pope prayed over the day in that alleged exorcism video and found this article I thought some people in this discussion would enjoy,

http://www.newsmax.com/EdwardPentin/Pope-Excorcism-Possessed-Angel/2013/05/29/id/506975

And in another link I can't believe that anyone still thinks God works in this manner. Reminds me of Westboro Baptist Church mentality.

“He is really a soul of God, which the Lord is using to criticize Mexico for legalizing abortion,” Father Amorth told Catholic News Agency.

http://www.examiner.com/article/experienced-vatican-exorcist-says-pope-cast-out-demon-from-man-by-simple-prayer

[revtimothybland]

First link, thank you Fawzo, it does help shed some light as to the man's own mentality, which may be real possessions, as he claims, or just a mental issue he has, such as Schizophrenia. Point is, we don't know, but the exorcisms seem to have a psychosomatic response in him. And to me, that's really what magic rituals, including exorcisms, are all about; the psychosomatic response. Self-hypnosis and the like. Effective, but no less real.

As to the second link, I can't believe anyone would believe that hype. By professing to know what God likes or dislikes is by definition taking the Lord's name in vain. That means there are more sinners WITHIN the church then without. And they don't fully realize it. It's a shame, really.

[RevJohnG]

There are just as many sinners in and out of the church.

I'm one of them.

And I agree -at-revtimothybland we don't know for sure, but I know what I saw.

wait for it?

An exorcism.

[BpCorey]

You dont have to believe in evil.

It believes in You.

[revtimothybland]

There are just as many sinners in and out of the church.

I'm one of them.

And I agree -at-revtimothybland we don't know for sure, but I know what I saw.

wait for it?

An exorcism.

I agree, FrJohnG.