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Zequatanil

I Am A Hindu

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I know that there is a thread going about part of my question, that is getting rather Biblical--but I have a question to everybody, but most of all to Christians and to those of the Jewish faith.

I am a Hindu living in the Punjab before British colonization--my faith is based on the Bhagavad Gita. I live the `golden rule` and all that is needed of my faith. Same goes for my counterparts in Africa, in South America and in various parts of the world--we have never heard of Christianity--we live a pure, good life-do no harm, love one an other...when we die we get thrown into `the lake of fire`. Why? Are people in the modern world saved only because they hear of Christianity--how about all countless millions before? Especially when Christianity dosn`t believe in re-incarnation. What was the purpose of all that--a practice run for God? Is God so small minded as to exclude some?

Why does the Christian God have favourites? Why does God hate me--personally?--If God does, why did he create me a Hindu? It wasn`t my choice. Are the people of Jewish faith also lost?--aren`t they the chosen ones?--they do not believe in Jesus, at this point. They are still waiting.

Please if I could have an answer--but not Bible quotes--for I have no idea about that and have never read it.

shanti,

S

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Taittiriya Upanishad-part 8

There is a bridge between time and Eternity; and this bridge is Atman, the Spirit of man. Neither day nor night cross that bridge, nor old age, nor death nor sorrow. Evil or sin cannot cross that bridge, because the world of the Spirit is pure. This is why when this bridge has been crossed, the eyes of the blind can see, the wounds of the wounded are healed, and the sick man becomes whole from his sickness. To one who goes over that bridge, the night becomes like unto day; because in the worlds of the Spirit there is a Light which is everlasting.

(Death)

When the body falls into weakness on account of old age or disease, even as a mango-fruit, or the fruit of the holy fig-tree, is loosened from its stem, so the Spirit of man is loosened from the human body and returns by the same way to Life, wherefrom he came.

And even as a worker in gold, taking an old ornament, moulds it into a form newer and fairer, even so the Soul, leaving the body and unwisdom behind, goes into a form newer and fairer: a form like that of the ancestors in heaven, or of the celestial beings, or of the gods of light, or of the Lord of Creation, or of Brahma the Creator supreme, or a form of other beings.

http://urantiabook.org/archive/readers/upanishads_bhagavad_gita.htm

blessings,

S

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I've said it elsewhere, I believe that all will go to heaven, but most Christians reconcile this idea by saying that one is condemened only when they actively reject the salvation of Jesus Christ. Because the people you lay out have never been given the chance to accept or reject, they will only be judged by what they know. If they do good "who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus"--Romans 2:14-16. (Sorry but it's just not fair to say that Christians can't use the bible when you get to use awesome quotes from the Upanishads, why should Hindus get to have all the fun?)

Edited by Rev'd Rattlesnake

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I know that there is a thread going about part of my question, that is getting rather Biblical--but I have a question to everybody, but most of all to Christians and to those of the Jewish faith.

I am a Hindu living in the Punjab before British colonization--my faith is based on the Bhagavad Gita. I live the `golden rule` and all that is needed of my faith. Same goes for my counterparts in Africa, in South America and in various parts of the world--we have never heard of Christianity--we live a pure, good life-do no harm, love one an other...when we die we get thrown into `the lake of fire`. Why? Are people in the modern world saved only because they hear of Christianity--how about all countless millions before? Especially when Christianity dosn`t believe in re-incarnation. What was the purpose of all that--a practice run for God? Is God so small minded as to exclude some?

Why does the Christian God have favourites? Why does God hate me--personally?--If God does, why did he create me a Hindu? It wasn`t my choice. Are the people of Jewish faith also lost?--aren`t they the chosen ones?--they do not believe in Jesus, at this point. They are still waiting.

Please if I could have an answer--but not Bible quotes--for I have no idea about that and have never read it.

shanti,

S

You wanted to hear from Christians and Jews. I'm a Jew.

We can make this the short version. Christians don't own God. Nobody does. Christianity does not define you, or me. Don't worry about it.

:dirol:

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Dan52   

I know that there is a thread going about part of my question, that is getting rather Biblical--but I have a question to everybody, but most of all to Christians and to those of the Jewish faith.

I am a Hindu living in the Punjab before British colonization--my faith is based on the Bhagavad Gita. I live the `golden rule` and all that is needed of my faith. Same goes for my counterparts in Africa, in South America and in various parts of the world--we have never heard of Christianity--we live a pure, good life-do no harm, love one an other...when we die we get thrown into `the lake of fire`. Why? Are people in the modern world saved only because they hear of Christianity--how about all countless millions before? Especially when Christianity dosn`t believe in re-incarnation. What was the purpose of all that--a practice run for God? Is God so small minded as to exclude some?

Why does the Christian God have favourites? Why does God hate me--personally?--If God does, why did he create me a Hindu? It wasn`t my choice. Are the people of Jewish faith also lost?--aren`t they the chosen ones?--they do not believe in Jesus, at this point. They are still waiting.

Please if I could have an answer--but not Bible quotes--for I have no idea about that and have never read it.

People are saved by hearing the gospel and believing in Christ, that's the Christian faith. Without quoting the bible, everyone will have an opportunity to accept Christ. Those who don't have an opportunity to hear or learn of Him while in the flesh, will have an opportunity to accept Christ in the millennium (Revelation 20), which is a thousand year period set-aside for that purpose. After Christ was crucified, he went and preached to all the people who had previously died in sin (1 Peter 3:19), so everyone from the beginning had the same opportunity to accept his saving grace as we do today. God is fair, He excludes no one. God doesn't hate you, He simply loves those who love him and denies those who deny him. The golden rule is biblical, but Christians don't believe that good conduct alone can save a person, we all fall short of the glory of God and need to accept atonement for our sins, which is Christ. I don't believe God created anyone a Hindu, Muslim, or Christian, but that we are all free to think, choose, and accept what we decide is true. That's just my opinion and the basic fundamentalist pov.

Boy, I'm sure not holding to my "post less often" plan :)

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They will only be judged by what they know. If they do good "who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus"--Romans 2:14-16. (Sorry but it's just not fair to say that Christians can't use the bible when you get to use awesome quotes from the Upanishads, why should Hindus get to have all the fun?)

Your quote just as awesome!--(emoticons out of commission) This is what I think also.

You wanted to hear from Christians and Jews. I'm a Jew.

We can make this the short version. Christians don't own God. Nobody does. Christianity does not define you, or me. Don't worry about it.

:dirol:

Now you get an A+++ LOL> --nobody owns God/everyone owns God! Thank you.

Edited by Tündér

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People are saved by hearing the gospel and believing in Christ, that's the Christian faith. Without quoting the bible, everyone will have an opportunity to accept Christ. Those who don't have an opportunity to hear or learn of Him while in the flesh, will have an opportunity to accept Christ in the millennium (Revelation 20), which is a thousand year period set-aside for that purpose. After Christ was crucified, he went and preached to all the people who had previously died in sin (1 Peter 3:19), so everyone from the beginning had the same opportunity to accept his saving grace as we do today. God is fair, He excludes no one. God doesn't hate you, He simply loves those who love him and denies those who deny him. The golden rule is biblical, but Christians don't believe that good conduct alone can save a person, we all fall short of the glory of God and need to accept atonement for our sins, which is Christ. I don't believe God created anyone a Hindu, Muslim, or Christian, but that we are all free to think, choose, and accept what we decide is true. That's just my opinion and the basic fundamentalist pov.

Boy, I'm sure not holding to my "post less often" plan :)

The golden rule is not biblical only!

Christianity:All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

Matthew 7:1

Confucianism: Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state.

Analects 12:2

Buddhism: Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.

Udana-Varga 5,1

Hinduism: This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you.

Mahabharata 5,1517

Islam: No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.

Sunnah

Judaism: What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.

Talmud, Shabbat 3id

Taoism: Regard your neighbor’s gain as your gain, and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.

Tai Shang Kan Yin P’ien

Zoroastrianism: That nature alone is good which refrains from doing another whatsoever is not good for itself.

Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5

http://www.teachingvalues.com/goldenrule.html

I am in the middle of the Punjab and God didn`t create me a Hindu--how was I free to choose??? I there will be a new age where I will be judged where am I till then? If God is fair--why am I not like all the others? I thought that God denies no one if one love`s him and lives a sinless life. I agree--once you have a choice, then you can choose to follow whatever faith you believe.

Jacques Dupuis--a great Jesuit!: Pathfinder for our Times--He gained notoriety for his ground-breaking theological work on understanding the place of other religions in God's one economy of salvation

``Exclusivism says no salvation outside the church. Inclusivism says all can be saved, but through Christ. Pluralism says there are many paths, and none are superior; give up Jesus Christ as the unique Savior. ``

Jacques Dupuis has been a leading pathfinder for mainline Christian thinkers in their efforts to develop a Christian theology of religious pluralism and to come to grips with the implications of the ongoing facts on the ground. To wit:

``When we look at the planet on which we live, we see that in India and China today there are two-billion-five-hundred-million people with a relatively tiny Christian constituency among them. If God wanted everyone to be Christian--if it were necessary--would God not make available the means? ``

``A touchstone for Dupuis are the two axioms expressed in 1 Tim. 2:4-6 : God's will to save all, and the attribution to Christ of a pivotal role in how it will all happen. Exclusivism, said Dupuis, does not take God's will to save all seriously enough. And pluralism does not take seriously enough the central role God has accorded to Jesus Christ in God's plan for the salvation of all. Only inclusivism manages to hold the two fundamental axioms together at once. At the end of his life, in an effort to recognize more fully the "otherness" of the "other" (non-Christians), Dupuis traced out a fourth typology: inclusivist pluralism, by which he sought to recognize that other paths have authentic religious value, but he held to the conviction that the death and resurrection of Jesus are truly the cause of salvation for all. ``

http://www.tomryancsp.org/jacques.htm

A great man of God indeed!!--it is worth to read his theology.

blessings and peace,

Suzanne

Edited by Tündér

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Exactly!

Christianity does not have a monopoly, on the truth. The key factor for salvation is all about `the Holy Spirit`--and that does not belong to Christians only--that works within each heart, and is power of GOD--is GOD. However, if one is a Christian Jesus is the point of salvation according to the `faith`--for others is what lies in the heart, the Holy Spirit.

For the open minded;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hick

blessings,

Suzanne

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For many, the idea of any kind of spiritual "salvation" from "sin" is completely foreign. The very terminology assumes a core belief that doesn't exist in many religions.

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Is that the case with your religion? I only know from what I've read in the illiad and such, but I thought the gods were quite particular about how humans were to act toward them and were quite swift and severe in punishing any slights...especially hubris. For Christians, sin is a missing of the mark, the mark being right action in the eyes of God, the conduct we were created to live out and one day will live out, imho, when we are fully conformed to Christ.

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For many, the idea of any kind of spiritual "salvation" from "sin" is completely foreign. The very terminology assumes a core belief that doesn't exist in many religions.

Hey! I was going to say that, or words to that effect. The whole idea of salvation and the need for a savior is a Christian concept as far as I know and you cannot go around placing Christian concepts on non Christian beliefs.

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----salvation ----

I think --as Rev`d Rattlesnake points out--we are all saved, however--as you pointed out:We are God, for me `part God` or `spark of God`. The salvation part comes in when you accept this notion, and realize this--for we have come to understand that we are sinners because of Adam and Eve--but we are not. For some it is sooner others later--but everyone is `saved`--always has been but have not realized it.

Maybe it should be called `enlightenment or realization of GOD`-- a `re-membering= into the essence of God`. That what Jesus was trying to explain--and in a way, there is no sin--as being pointed out, but` a miss of mark`--as a Christian our faith lifts the load of sin, that we carry within our conscience , but it is the knowledge of God HOLY SPIRIT, that is the connector of man to GOD, the ego is the `blocker=free will`.

As a Christian: If Jesus died for my sin-and I follow the basis of His teaching-- then there no sin and all are saved, as it has been paid for.

I think Br. Hex makes perfect the most perfect sense--regarding the way.

blessings,

Suzanne

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Rightfulness does not exclude, as perhaps Jacques would say, it includes. My personal belief system is that there are going to be many, otherwise good and decent folks, who are going to get a very big 'come-uppance' when they reach the Hereafter due to the way they exclude so many other paths.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with accepting 2+2=4, but when anyone excludes the untold number of other ways to reach an answer of "4" they are not living as the Christ, or any other Prophet or Holy man, has implored them to live. Even though my particular path is formulated by the "Eternal and sacred numbers of 9,7 and 3" (97-93=4) I have a friend who thinks 1+3=4 is a good and proper path....we still fish together and have many a fine conversation about woodworking. So if you feel that 2+2 or 29-25 or 3+1 is the right path for you head on, be happy and healthy....just don't claim my math is screwed up!

So many of the "Holy Texts", "Scared writings" etc give reference to "what is written on one's heart" so there must be something to that logic.

And what is written on one's heart....I once knew a systems engineer at work that gave much of his earnings to charities of many types. Over lunch one day several of us commented on his altruism and "good works" to which he just busted up laughing. His philosophy was such that being "merciful" to the homeless, junkies, the otherwise dregs and less fortunate of the world, would be to "put a bullet in their head", making short their suffering. And besides, most of those contributions are "income tax offsets!" (He also made a sizable income from personal endeavors) His true heart was to allow charities to continue keeping them alive "in their dismal state of existence, strictly for my amusement". Say wha.....???? :unsure:

Whoa hey, now there is one sick bass terd, if'n's ya axt me. That one person has left an indelible mark on my thinking, one that shows the boundless ways mankind simply messes with its own species for personal, introverted pleasure. This really would be such a great planet if it weren't for all the dang Hu-mans on it!

Blessings of Peace,

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Is that the case with your religion? I only know from what I've read in the illiad and such, but I thought the gods were quite particular about how humans were to act toward them and were quite swift and severe in punishing any slights...especially hubris. For Christians, sin is a missing of the mark, the mark being right action in the eyes of God, the conduct we were created to live out and one day will live out, imho, when we are fully conformed to Christ.

The Iliad is a myth, not scripture. While there were behaviors classified as virtue and vice in Greek culture, it's not really the same thing as sin in the Christian sense. It's rare to find absolutes when it comes to spiritual law in the Greek cultures. The tyrannicides Harmodius and Aristogeiton defiled the festival of Athena with bloodshed (incurring spiritual pollution onto the city itself), but were given honor as heroes, and their descendants were honored with social privileges because their act of murder was socially acceptable and justified.

The Gods of Greece did not dole out any equivalent of "the ten commandments" or sacred laws.

Outside of Orphic and Pythagorean schools of thought, you won't really find the concepts of "man's sinful nature" and spiritual salvation from that sinful nature in ancient Greek philosophy, because there aren't any popular myths of a flawed creation or a "fall" that led humans astray from the Gods.

There's really no need for spiritual salvation when one's myths do not speak of a fall from perfection and original sin.

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I think --as Rev`d Rattlesnake points out--we are all saved, however--as you pointed out:We are God, for me `part God` or `spark of God`. The salvation part comes in when you accept this notion, and realize this--for we have come to understand that we are sinners because of Adam and Eve--but we are not. For some it is sooner others later--but everyone is `saved`--always has been but have not realized it.

Maybe it should be called `enlightenment or realization of GOD`-- a `re-membering= into the essence of God`. That what Jesus was trying to explain--and in a way, there is no sin--as being pointed out, but` a miss of mark`--as a Christian our faith lifts the load of sin, that we carry within our conscience , but it is the knowledge of God HOLY SPIRIT, that is the connector of man to GOD, the ego is the `blocker=free will`.

As a Christian: If Jesus died for my sin-and I follow the basis of His teaching-- then there no sin and all are saved, as it has been paid for.

I think Br. Hex makes perfect the most perfect sense--regarding the way.

blessings,

Suzanne

Now I think (not meaning to anger anyone) you are speaking mumbo-jumbo. You keep coming back to the Christian theme. If I reject the bible then I am also rejecting original sin, Adam and Eve, Christ, Jehovah (or whatever you choose to call your god) and the need for a savior. If I am being saved for something, it is probably fertilizer or worm food. I don't think I am being saved from anything except perhaps extreme old age. Sin only exists in SOME religious contexts. Sin is otherwise miss behavior within a societal group.

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Dan52   

I am in the middle of the Punjab and God didn`t create me a Hindu--how was I free to choose??? I there will be a new age where I will be judged where am I till then? If God is fair--why am I not like all the others? I thought that God denies no one if one love`s him and lives a sinless life. I agree--once you have a choice, then you can choose to follow whatever faith you believe.

Well, I guess we can't control where we're born or the dominant influences around us, but you seem to have access to more information than what's in your immediate surroundings now, and that presents choices. Your correct from a Christian perspective, God denies no one eternal life if they believe and accept him (John 3:16), and you don't even need to live a sinless life. I didn't even know that was possible? :)

Christianity does not have a monopoly, on the truth. The key factor for salvation is all about `the Holy Spirit`--and that does not belong to Christians only--that works within each heart, and is power of GOD--is GOD. However, if one is a Christian Jesus is the point of salvation according to the `faith`--for others is what lies in the heart, the Holy Spirit.

Well, being a monotheist Christian, I believe Christ is the only Truth (John 14:6). I also believe the Holy Spirit was sent by Christ, he described it as the 'Comforter', the Spirit of truth (John 15:26). You are correct though, there are many other spirits that others prefer, but being a one-dimensional thinking fundamentalist, I believe there's only one Holy Spirit.

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You keep coming back to the Christian theme. If I reject the bible then I am also rejecting original sin, Adam and Eve, Christ, Jehovah (or whatever you choose to call your god) and the need for a savior. If I am being saved for something, it is probably fertilizer or worm food. I don't think I am being saved from anything except perhaps extreme old age. Sin only exists in SOME religious contexts. Sin is otherwise miss behavior within a societal group.

Not at all--you can reject the bible if it is your belief--and you will not be fertilizer...LOL!

Just because I am a Christian, this is my view--that is my whole point!For me that is the truth, for the Hindu it is an other truth, for you it is something else--but truth non the less no one is going to hell...including all the members of different faiths--from Agnostics-Zoroastrians...and everything in between provided they practice truly what is written in their heart.

blessings,

Suzanne

Well, I guess we can't control where we're born or the dominant influences around us, but you seem to have access to more information than what's in your immediate surroundings now, and that presents choices. Your correct from a Christian perspective, God denies no one eternal life if they believe and accept him (John 3:16), and you don't even need to live a sinless life. I didn't even know that was possible? :)

Well, being a monotheist Christian, I believe Christ is the only Truth (John 14:6). I also believe the Holy Spirit was sent by Christ, he described it as the 'Comforter', the Spirit of truth (John 15:26). You are correct though, there are many other spirits that others prefer, but being a one-dimensional thinking fundamentalist, I believe there's only one Holy Spirit.

Only one Holy Spirit--YES! There are no other spirits except during Halloween...LOL. However--the Holy Spirit in my religion is the `third person` of the TRINITY, so it is GOD, not just the `comforter`, but the spirit of God that dwells within us.

blessings,

S

Edited by Tündér

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