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Zequatanil

Egotism/altruism

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it's a matter of definitions

an·ti·thet·i·cal/ˌantəˈTHetikəl/

Adjective:

  • Directly opposed or contrasted; mutually incompatible.
  • Connected with, containing, or using the rhetorical device of antithesis.

if it is mutually incompatible with human endeavour, humans can't do it.

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if it were antithetical to human endeavour, it wouldn't happen.

Orcs...childhood...socially crippled adulthood - pretty much the same.

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if it were antithetical to human endeavour, it wouldn't happen.

Let's pretend that progessivism has the best interests of the human existence in mind.....

Got an historical proof? Other than the utopian dream, I mean.....

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Let's pretend that progessivism has the best interests of the human existence in mind.....

Got an historical proof? Other than the utopian dream, I mean.....

I will pretend to think that was tongue in cheek (regarding progessivism having the best interests of human existence...

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You can pretend but that doesn't change the idea of the progressive "leadership" not being at all concerned with the human condition.

I do not say that tongue in cheek. I know too many of them too closely for that.

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progressivism brought us out of barbarism into civilization. That is what we call "progress". See the connection?

rule by consensus rather than by force? a progressive ideal. Equality of mankind. progressive.. Free speech.. progressive.. But all kinda off topic. We are discussing egotism vs altruism. Both progressives and conservatives show signs of both. I am especially interested in the term "enlightened self interest". I am having a hard time determining what this means. It is apparent that AR added the term enlightened to distinguish it from simple self interest, which it would seem was not what she was talking about. But the adjective has a fairy tale quality. It makes her brand of self interest somehow superior, without defining what makes it superior. It seems very emperors new clothes.

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You can pretend but that doesn't change the idea of the progressive "leadership" not being at all concerned with the human condition.

I do not say that tongue in cheek. I know too many of them too closely for that.

No harm meant...I don't think either party (actually any of the parties of the last 30-40) years could honestly claim to be progressive in outlook.

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I have yet to hear or read an effective, actionable and sustainable alternative to her adaptation of this basic conservative philosophy. Utopian alternatives don't exist for long

Where has the objectivist model been successful or long lasting?

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I find this interesting--who said objectivism is dead :derisive: it is alive and well it seems.

Back in 2005, an up-and-coming lawmaker named Paul Ryan credited the polemical novelist and libertarian Ayn Rand as a central inspiration for his entry into public life. Ryan toiled in those days in relative obscurity, a well-respected but low-profile member of the House of Representatives.

By the spring of 2012, the boyish congressman had become a Republican star, widely named as a possible vice presidential pick. He also had become considerably less comfortable being linked to the controversial Rand, an atheist with a tartly Darwinian world view.

As Ryan and the Republicans look to define the new vice presidential choice’s brand, part of the commentary will be about just how Randian (read: unsympathetic to the weak) the candidate really is.

Ayn Rand wrote the bestselling “Atlas Shrugged.” She also encouraged the world’s “makers” to pursue “rational self interest” as “the highest moral purpose of [one's] life,” while giving little care to the nefarious “takers.”

Journalists who have recently written about Ryan suggested that his infatuation with the Russian émigré author, who died in 1982 at age 77, has hardly waned. The favorite son of Wisconsin has recently been insisting that his embrace of Rand amounted to a youthful infatuation. In an April interview with the National Review, Ryan said that the reports linking him to Rand were essentially “an urban legend.”

“I reject her philosophy,” Ryan told Robert Costa of the National Review. “It’s an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview.” He added that he had merely “enjoyed a couple of her novels,” which also included another bestseller, “The Fountainhead.”

But Ryan made no bones about his philosophical influences just a few years ago. He told the Weekly Standard in 2003 that he gave his staffers copies of “Atlas Shrugged” as Christmas presents. Speaking to a group of Rand acolytes in 2005, Ryan said, “The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand. And the fight we are in here, make no mistake about it, is a fight of individualism versus collectivism.”

Even three years ago, Tim Mak of Politico noted, Ryan channeled Rand. “What’s unique about what’s happening today in government, in the world, in America, is that it’s as if we’re living in an Ayn Rand novel right now,” Ryan said. “I think Ayn Rand did the best job of anybody to build a moral case of capitalism, and that morality of capitalism is under assault.”

http://www.latimes.c...0,1175099.story

blessings and peace,

S

I know people are trying to pawn this guy off as a Randian because he'll sometimes pull out a quote and used to toy with the philosophy back in college, but one quick look show him to be nothing more than a big government conservative in libertarian clothing. He's a younger, slightly more eloquent George W. Bush.

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I know people are trying to pawn this guy off as a Randian because he'll sometimes pull out a quote and used to toy with the philosophy back in college, but one quick look show him to be nothing more than a big government conservative in libertarian clothing. He's a younger, slightly more eloquent George W. Bush.

Bingo! Be afraid, very afraid....and hey, a havalena is more eloquent than Gee-Dub and probably smells better too.

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Where has the objectivist model been successful or long lasting?

I don't think it has been but that is only a small part of her philosophy. It was important to her but she never understood the Dynamics or life and probably never even heard of them. It is important to not harm ones customers nor the providers of ones wants.

Objectivism as interpreted by too many is a little crazy IMNSHO but her views on the free market and indiviudal choices are spot on and more relevant today than ever before. Collectivism has never worked beyond the few at the very top. Those who are more equal than the rest. Collectivism also demands an ignorance of economics else the lower rungs would escape from the plantations.

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