Fawzo Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 It is my belief in a modern court of law that the actions of Moses and Joshua would have them sitting in a courtroom being tried and convicted of war crimes.Their actions occurred as Rev Rainbow pointed out in another place, time and cultural setting. To many they are seen as heroes.Moral relativism seems to come into play here as we become more sophisticated and our moral outlook changes.My question though is does God's Morals ever change and how could he allow his people to behave so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Gray Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Strategically not killing them all would have eventually caused their demise. It can be compared to Nakasaki and Hiroshima. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Songster Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Agree with DGray. Heros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Gray Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 Just to be clear...I never said hero or war criminal.I have mentioned it before, that the massive bombing campaign in Europe during WWII would now be an unacceptable act of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Real Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 I consider the bombing of Nakasaki and Hiroshima a crime against humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kaman Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 History is written by the victors. Moses and Joshua were heroes to their people. If they had lost they would have been war criminals. General Sherman was a Civil War Hero. Had the Union lost the war he would have been a war criminal. Same for Harry Truman, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Songster Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) .... not killing them all would have eventually caused their demise.Agree with DGray.I'll be more specific in the future. Moses and Joshua were "Heros." Leaving any of the inhabitants of Canaan alive would have been a tactical error. Edited June 7, 2012 by Songster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan56 Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 It is my belief in a modern court of law that the actions of Moses and Joshua would have them sitting in a courtroom being tried and convicted of war crimes.Moses didn't pick-up a sword, its the actions of God that would be on trial..... And good luck with that!Moral relativism seems to come into play here as we become more sophisticated and our moral outlook changes.My question though is does God's Morals ever change and how could he allow his people to behave so?The morality (righteousness) of God doesn't change because the character of God doesn't change (Hebrews 13:8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawzo Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) I consider the bombing of Nakasaki and Hiroshima a crime against humanity.Agreed Hyper. I my eyes it has been the darkest day in the History of the World. Nothing heroic about it.Moses didn't pick-up a sword, its the actions of God that would be on trial..... And good luck with that!The morality (righteousness) of God doesn't change because the character of God doesn't change (Hebrews 13:8)So then Dan it is still morally fine with God if we kill off whole nations of people who don't believe as we do and dashing their little ones against the rocks is still considered righteousness?!?!?!Moses didn't pick-up a sword, its the actions of God that would be on trial..... And good luck with that!The case against God as portrayed in the Bible would be easy. Our great protector who has allowed so much pain and suffering into a world system that he designed that it would take an infinity to hear all the charges brought against him.I'll be more specific in the future. Moses and Joshua were "Heros." Leaving any of the inhabitants of Canaan alive would have been a tactical error.So Songster in your mind heros thrust a spear or sword through the hearts of pregnant women and two year olds, whose only crime is living their life in the town in which they were born in.And we're not even addressing the barbaric slaughter of the animals of so many animals. Did Canaanites have sheep and goat IED's back then. Edited June 7, 2012 by Fawzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawzo Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 I would like to go on record as saying that even today I feel the Jews behavior in the extreme way they retaliate against the Palestinians is barbaric and keeps the wheels of hatred and terror rolling right along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Songster Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) · Hidden by murphzlaw1, June 8, 2012 - duplicate Hidden by murphzlaw1, June 8, 2012 - duplicate I would like to go on record as saying that even today I feel the Jews behavior in the extreme way they retaliate against the Palestinians is barbaric and keeps the wheels of hatred and terror rolling right along.So Fawzo, in your mind the killing of innocent children and pregnant Jewish women by Arab suicide bombers is OK. Are Arab suicide bombers your heros? Edited June 7, 2012 by Songster Link to comment
Ex Nihilo Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 I would like to go on record as saying that even today I feel the Jews behavior in the extreme way they retaliate against the Palestinians is barbaric and keeps the wheels of hatred and terror rolling right along. Duly noted. Thanks for your candor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Songster Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 So Songster in your mind heros thrust a spear or sword through the hearts of pregnant women and two year olds, whose only crime is living their life in the town in which they were born in.I would like to go on record as saying that even today I feel the Jews behavior in the extreme way they retaliate against the Palestinians is barbaric and keeps the wheels of hatred and terror rolling right along.So Fawzo, in your mind the killing of innocent children and pregnant Jewish women by Arab suicide bombers is OK. Are Arab suicide bombers your heros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Real Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 I would like to go on record as saying that even today I feel the Jews behavior in the extreme way they retaliate against the Palestinians is barbaric and keeps the wheels of hatred and terror rolling right along.The Jews I know are also appalled by the actions of Israel against the Palestinians.So I do not believe "the Jews" is a fair characterization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bro. Hex Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 The Jews I know are also appalled by the actions of Israel against the Palestinians.So I do not believe "the Jews" is a fair characterization. I agree with this, Hyper...In fact I believe that many Jews IN ISRAEL are appalledby their government's violent hostile acts.Not so different from our country, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Real Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 I agree with this, Hyper...In fact I believe that many Jews IN ISRAEL are appalledby their government's violent hostile acts.Not so different from our country, is it?Actually in my experience those who turn a total blind eye to the actions of Israel are all fundamentalist Christians.Also there are many orthodox Jews who do not even recognize the secular state called Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawzo Posted June 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 So Fawzo, in your mind the killing of innocent children and pregnant Jewish women by Arab suicide bombers is OK. Are Arab suicide bombers your heros?No Songster they are delusional men who live in fear and think their actions will improve the conditions of those they love or who act out of sheer frustration believing they are unable to change their plight.I think for every Jewish soldier, woman or child that is killed by an Arab at least 100 Arabs die in retaliation and their homes destroyed.The Jews I know are also appalled by the actions of Israel against the Palestinians.So I do not believe "the Jews" is a fair characterization.I would think you are correct, what decent human would not be appaled. Whether that number is the majority of the population though I do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan56 Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 So then Dan it is still morally fine with God if we kill off whole nations of people who don't believe as we do and dashing their little ones against the rocks is still considered righteousness?!?!?!No, its not fine with God if we kill those who don't believe. Did Jesus kill nonbelievers? You might be thinking of Allah? "O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." (Psalm 137:8&9) God is foretelling the future here, he isn't giving orders to the Israelites.The Babylonians had been very cruel to Israel and everyone else, and it would be the Medes and Persians who would extend the same type of cruelty against Babylon as they had dished-out to others. The case against God as portrayed in the Bible would be easy. Our great protector who has allowed so much pain and suffering into a world system that he designed that it would take an infinity to hear all the charges brought against him.Whoever said God was our great protector? Pain and suffering is due to the absence of God, we were separated from the Tree of Life and left to a world of flesh, sin, and hardship. God didn't design that for us, we chose it. What charges would you bring against God? That he hates wickedness and sin, or that God had a problem with societies that sacrificed their own children? Boy, the nerve of God to intercede against unrighteousness run-amuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawzo Posted June 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) No, its not fine with God if we kill those who don't believe. Did Jesus kill nonbelievers? You might be thinking of Allah? Dan get your facts straight, I'm sure I can dig up more proof if you like:They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)1)If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)"O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." (Psalm 137:8&9) God is foretelling the future here, he isn't giving orders to the Israelites.The Babylonians had been very cruel to Israel and everyone else, and it would be the Medes and Persians who would extend the same type of cruelty against Babylon as they had dished-out to others. Yea sure Dan that justifies picking up infants and smashing there brains out against rocks.Whoever said God was our great protector?Dan I'm actually starting to wonder if you even read the Bible lolPain and suffering is due to the absence of God, we were separated from the Tree of Life and left to a world of flesh, sin, and hardship. God didn't design that for us, we chose it. What charges would you bring against God? That he hates wickedness and sin, or that God had a problem with societies that sacrificed their own children? Boy, the nerve of God to intercede against unrighteousness run-amuck. The Hebrews sacrificed their own kids as well Dan. Jepthah and his daughter was only one example. Dan that separation from the tree of life was created by God denying Adam and Eve access to it. Besides Dan Hominids died for tens of thousands of years before Adam and Eve ever existed. Edited June 8, 2012 by Fawzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zequatanil Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) This is the fundamental difference between the Old and the New Testament--Christianity and Judaism. The Old Testaments portrayal is an angry, vengeful, hateful, wrathful, jealous, warlike God--whereas the New Testament God is loving, compassionate, forgiving, merciful. This is why Jesus came --this was the saving, or rather the explanation of God, of how we should behave--Love one an other like I have loved you.In the Old Testament everybody was killing everybody--even God`s supposed favourite like David. How could this have been God`s instructions--He could have done it Himself. Blood sacrifices--Why? Very illogical to me. If this was the reaL case then maybe the Gnostics have it right--and both Old and New Testament are fairy tales spun by a lesser Creator God--and Lucifer is the savior of mankind as the Gnostics believe..Before Jesus it was an eye for an eye and such. He said turn the other cheek. Many parables were regarding this love, mercy, acceptance of all people. He was the example of the characteristics of Godbible.cc/john/14-6.htmJesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. I think it is because of this reason.As for Moses or Joshua--being heros or killers, It depends which side you are observing the situation--for Jews they were heros, for the people they massacred they were killers. Are Palestinian suicide bombers terrorists or freedom fighters? If I am a Palestinian --they are freedom fighters--If I am a Jew they are terrorists.No--I do not think God ever gave the instructions of killing each other, to my mind it was the many writers of the Old Testament that perhaps listened far too often to their ego not the voice of God. But I never really thought that the Israelites were the chosen race. Sorry if I offended anyone.As for any killing, any war, the aggressors--they are all considered murderers to my thinking-- no matter who they are.The only time perhaps that I could have some leniency is to protect one`s self if attacked. But even then I would have a hard time.blessings,S Edited June 8, 2012 by sarkany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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