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Coolhand

Hey...what Does Proverbs 18:24 Mean?

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Pete   

I can wait... :beach:

Another meaning I expect that could be interpreted is that one could have many fickle friends who may leave one but God stays close.

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Bro. Hex   

I would agree (assuming you do) that it objectively does not make much sense to find Christian interpretations in Judaic texts, however from a Christian perspective it makes total sense. To many Christians the Jewish writings were predestined to be read and interpreted much later by Christians as part of God's plan.

Some time ago I gave my opinion on OT references in the NT. I believe those OT insertions were intended to to make Jesus into a Messiah and give a Christian flavor to the OT. I believe Jesus was not a Jew but neither a Christian. I believe Paul made him into a Christian.

:thumbu:

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Pete   

I would agree (assuming you do) that it objectively does not make much sense to find Christian interpretations in Judaic texts, however from a Christian perspective it makes total sense. To many Christians the Jewish writings were predestined to be read and interpreted much later by Christians as part of God's plan.

Some time ago I gave my opinion on OT references in the NT. I believe those OT insertions were intended to to make Jesus into a Messiah and give a Christian flavor to the OT. I believe Jesus was not a Jew but neither a Christian. I believe Paul made him into a Christian.

I would argue that just as the Christian texts developed over time to portray the Paulian and that of Philo viewpoint so did the OT develop from original spiritual text to the assertion of all things being as is. Just as (IMO) we would have had another form of Christianity had Paul not waded in I am sure we would have had another form of Judaism had the Babaylonains not invaded Israel and then later the greeks and the romans. It is of interest to me that the form of Judaism expressed in the North was different from that in Judea in Israel's history.

For me Jesus was most definitely a Jew but I also go with God can be found in many faiths and that religion is just the path one takes until spirituality awakes and one experiences God for themselves.

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I would argue that just as the Christian texts developed over time to portray the Paulian and that of Philo viewpoint so did the OT develop from original spiritual text to the assertion of all things being as is. Just as (IMO) we would have had another form of Christianity had Paul not waded in I am sure we would have had another form of Judaism had the Babaylonains not invaded Israel and then later the greeks and the romans. It is of interest to me that the form of Judaism expressed in the North was different from that in Judea in Israel's history.

For me Jesus was most definitely a Jew but I also go with God can be found in many faiths and that religion is just the path one takes until spirituality awakes and one experiences God for themselves.

Thou shouldst surely be appointed to Sage and Wise One, oh man of few words, for thine written orations are surely that of both Sage and learn-ed Elder of the Wise! thumbsup%281%29.gif

By the staff of Heimdalher and the Horn of Braggi, the wise council of Bladr and strength of Thor are you hence awarded (whatever title thou shalt choose) and given the Medallion of Snorri and the Cup of Mimir! So may you be known from this day forward!

Of course, you can always just keep "Pete" but I found your statement worthy of at least a little praise... :smart:

Blessings of Peace,

Edited by Reverend Al

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Here is a application suggestion:

A man (person) may have many acquaintances, and may see them doing things (or see things coming) that are going to cause them total destruction, but he does nothing about it because he is not really that close and may not really care a whole lot about these "friends." BUT, there are friends out there that are really close, that really love and care that will not stand by and just was their friends be destroyed, but will fight and preserve with thier friends (brothers) as one unit, to the death if necessary. Your thoughts?

Now I realize you may take the book, Odhinn's Troth (The Truths of Odhinn) as merely a pagan source and doesn't apply to Biblical literature, but I think what you are describing from the OT Proverbs 18:24 is exactly the same thing put forth in this literary work from approximately 800BCE and I believe Solomon was around 950-1000BCE so who knows where the "original text" came from.

7-4: There are many who would call you friend, some for the purpose of good and some for the purpose of beleaguering you into their deceit against others. Choose wisely, then, those that you would call a brother in arms, for it is they who always have your intentions and thoughts close to their heart as you do theirs.

9-9: Be not foolish in the number of Good Folk you would have sit at your First Table* as this should be the smallest table in thy castle. It is set for thee and thy first son and perhaps thy brother and closest friend, but beyond that it would seem foolish as few others keep your Troth as you would. Those that boast and have extended their First Table to seat many warriors are the ones most likely to be felled by their own greed.

I do believe the message is the same beyond all the linguistics involved...a simple straight forward message of choosing one's "friends" rightly and with wisdom. Don't think that because you have MANY friends this is a sign of wisdom rather a show of foolishness. There are very few close enough to your thinking, ideals and importance that would die for the those causes or attributes as they are not important enough to them. Same then as it is today...the only one's I want close to me as "friends" are those who I would gladly give all for as they would me...and why I can only count, maybe four or five as true friends. Certainly my wife and I are friendly people, but to die for one of our neighbor's foolish thoughts...nope not me.

I think wisdom is universal, regardless of the source as it all says basically the same things Coolhand....having wisdom is different than being "smart" or "educated" as I, am sure others here, know Ph.D's, Doctors, Professors and Lawyers of great "smarts" that couldn't wisely choose a path out of common sense paper bag....nor would they be good friends because my/your important things wouldn't be so unto to them.

Blessings of Peace,

* in the ancient days, a Nordic castle would have several feasting tables...the "First Table" would be for the king of the castle and only the closest of all comrades/friends/brothers.

Edited by Reverend Al

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Dan56   

Hey...what does proverbs 18:24 mean?

I think it means; "There are friends that rend us, but there is a friend who is closer than a brother"

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RabbiO   

Personally, I think the key is the first part of the verse which, in the Hebrew, has a double play on words.

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It seems to me that this chapter lists one-liner life lessons. Or 2-liner if you prefer. Taking this into account, and of course, taking into account the fact that this IS the bible, I think the interpretation would be something like this:

A man may come to ruin though he has many friends, because none may be truly counted on. But there is 1 friend who can always be counted on and that friend is God.

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Fawzo   

It seems to me that this chapter lists one-liner life lessons. Or 2-liner if you prefer. Taking this into account, and of course, taking into account the fact that this IS the bible, I think the interpretation would be something like this:

A man may come to ruin though he has many friends, because none may be truly counted on. But there is 1 friend who can always be counted on and that friend is God.

If that were true then what of all those who are suffering so cruelly each day. Why can't they count on God? Could Casey ANthony's little daughter count on God and her mom?!?!?!

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If that were true then what of all those who are suffering so cruelly each day. Why can't they count on God? Could Casey ANthony's little daughter count on God and her mom?!?!?!

Uh... I'm not stating my point of view, so I have no answer to your question. I'm simply offering my interperetation of the passage in question.

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If that were true then what of all those who are suffering so cruelly each day. Why can't they count on God? Could Casey ANthony's little daughter count on God and her mom?!?!?!

Those who are suffering "so creully" each day, are blind to the assistance they receive on a minute by minute basis. And they judge their life based on a very limited view of what is occurring...

and I think there is a basic understanding which does not follow through the words of the text which are left for us... we don't have that understanding, so misunderstanding is inevitable...

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The NASB is one of the best translations available today. It is much better than the NIV. A basic Hebrew to English translation of Psalm 18:24 is "There are friends that one hath to his own hurt; but there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother." My reading leads me to believe the NASB is the closer translation. This verse is telling us that not everyone we consider a friend is a real friend but some can become like family. †?†

Edited by ReverendV

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Proverbs 18:24

A man with friends is befriended; sometimes a friend is closer than a brother.

According to annotations in the Tanach (Stone Edition):

At times friends become more deeply attached than brothers, because friendship is founded on choice;

the hearts and minds of friends have come to know and esteem one another.

Edited by oldblindjohn

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. A basic Hebrew to English translation of Psalm 18:24 is "There are friends that one hath to his own hurt; but there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother." My reading leads me to believe the NASB is the closer translation. This verse is telling us that not everyone we consider a friend is a real friend but some can become like family. †?†

You should read the Stone edition the Tanach.

It is the best english translation. It has facing page hebrew so you can check the translation for accuracy.

Edited by oldblindjohn

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Hello obj. I prefer the JPS. I find the Artscroll Stone edition to be too orthodox in its translation for my taste. The JPS on the other hand is based much more on a combination of view points. I guess that would explain why the Stone is preferred by orthodox Jews while the JPS is preferred more by the moderate and liberal communities. I also prefer the language used in the JPS. I find it to be more of a literal word for word translation than the Stone. †?†

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leeslove   
On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2011 at 3:29 PM, Coolhand said:

NIV = A man of many companions may come to ruin, but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.

NASB = Some friends play at friendship but a true friend sticks closer than one’s nearest kin.

Yeah, it looks to me like the "A man with friends is to show himself friendly" is an example of how the Latin translation influenced some of the older English translations "vir amicalis ad societatem magis amicus erit quam frater" -- Latin Vulgate.

lol....I guess you can see my frustration from listening to a old preacher using this text from the KJV and using this verse to preach on how friends are supposed to be friendly to one another....lol.

By the way, the winners in this round were the NIV and the NASB.

hi, I was thinking that: just because a preacher uses the scripture incorrectly, doesn't void the translation. KJV is still the best translation, a man that has friends must show himself friendly: meaning: at times, the friendliness is a superficial level, but the true friend: there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother, second part is clear... HALLALUJAH

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