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Fawzo

Are You Responsible For Your Thoughts And Dreams?

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I would like to hear everyone's opinion on whether they believe they are responsible for their thoughts and dreams.

Many times it seems as if just random stuff starts entering my mind, and I wonder about the origins of thoughts and dreams and emotions. Some times the thoughts are of the most vile and evil nature and I question if whether these thoughts are creations of my own mind or are they being projected into it from some external source. On the other side of the coin there are times when information enters our minds that we have no reasonable explanation for being aware of.

So my question is should we be held responsible for traffic that passes through our awareness in our waking and dreaming states or should our responsiblities rely on how much focus we place upon individual thought forms?

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IMO, we are not responsible for thoughts or dreams which we had no play in forming. All kinds of random and unusual stuff can pop into our minds. The problem is in entertaining the negative thoughts. If we think of thoughts and dreams the way we think of temptation, it is the same. It is only when we act on these things that we become responsible for our actions. However, even dwelling on a specific negative thought may result in a change of mental or behavioral norms.

In the case of various mental illness, one may not be able to discern fantasy from reality, or at another level, be plagued with obsessive negative thought which leads to, or can be a result of, depression. Normally, we can dismiss strange thoughts and they go away, but sometimes they hang around and can afflict our thinking as we dwell on them too long. We are not responsible for the thoughts or dreams, but we are responsible for how we handle them.

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I would like to hear everyone's opinion on whether they believe they are responsible for their thoughts and dreams.

Many times it seems as if just random stuff starts entering my mind, and I wonder about the origins of thoughts and dreams and emotions. Some times the thoughts are of the most vile and evil nature and I question if whether these thoughts are creations of my own mind or are they being projected into it from some external source. On the other side of the coin there are times when information enters our minds that we have no reasonable explanation for being aware of.

So my question is should we be held responsible for traffic that passes through our awareness in our waking and dreaming states or should our responsiblities rely on how much focus we place upon individual thought forms?

Dreams: no. a person's defense-mechanisms cannot operate when he is asleep; he has no control over what goes on in his mind.

Thoughts: "yes and no"-- meaning: a person generally cannot prevent random thoughts from crossing his mind... however, he does have some degree of "say" in whether he just lets negative thoughts "keep on crossing and go on their way" or whether he lets them stick around so he can "entertain" them for awhile. :coffee:

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You both seem to suggest that we haven't complete control over our minds, but should we?

Also I have to ask who is in control, the same chaotic forces which seem to rule our Universe?

While a part of me wishes to believe that our minds are the only kingdom we can have complete control and rule over, if the source for some of these thought forms is external as is the belief in some faiths then the only thing I can control is the amount of focus I allow myself to give to them.

If these entities are the product of the grey matter solely within my brain case then its not possible that anyone but I as their creator should be responsible don't you think.

Edited by Fawzo

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I don't know the answer to your question. I have thoughts on it,though..in terms of random thought, as others have said, I believe we are responsible for processing them in a way that causes no harm to ourselves or others; but to their origins and our responsibility for them, not so sure

I've had some pretty weird dreams - there was one in the last few months that I believe I have traced the origins of..a young girl knocked on my door late at night and asked me to borrow something inane (like a hairbrush or something) I said no, because there was something ominous about her presence and I "knew" that she was not after the thing she had requested

as I tried to close the door she pushed her way in and proceeded to attack me and other (random) people in the room, enter dark halls, silent screams, mayhem, etc...

I was like, "wow, where did THAT come from"? til later when I realized that I must have fallen asleep on the couch with the television on as a suspense movie that was looping on cable came on again and I recognized the protagonist

I think that some frightening dreams of a weird place with high metal walkways, creepy ominous fish and large marine mammals can be traced to my childhood when I lived a few houses from the intercoastal outside of Miami, we'd sometimes walk across the drawbridge and look down into the water, at four it creeped me out and at thirty when I walked across that drawbridge again, I was pretty certain that that was where this dream came from...that and seeing my grandparents off on the Queen Mary in New York when we boarded the ship with them before departure..

I do think though that there are other things at play, not just those thoughts that imbed in the subconcious sometimes; I'd say that the dreaming mind is incredibly complex

and let's not dismiss the grey matter/brain chemistry component...

Edited by grateful

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Well Fawzo, be pal-o-buddy-o-mine, an ageless question of which I'm not sure we'll ever have a complete truth about.

WARNING!....my personal view is a bit ragged, jagged and inter mixed with several philosophies, so may seem a bit "crazy". I don't recall all the technical terms and "labels", but.... it's all chemically induced. However, stress and anxiety are two of the best known inducers of "strange dreams" as well as the outside influences like (grateful) mentioned. This is where I firmly believe that losing touch with reality comes into focus as, also said above, a person finds the line between fantasy/dream and reality completely blurred or indistinguishable from our waking conscious. Much like LSD, tetracannebanol, mescaline, peyote or even heroin can induce....so I have read.... :unsure: ....a blurred line between the two states of consciousness. (1)

But, are we responsible for the origins and playing out of those thoughts in dream form?

I would say someone like the yogi's, shaman and other highly trained priests/esses, who are well versed in mental conditioning and training, would say "yes", while those of us who have little control or expertise in this area would say "no". Part of my search for Self truth has been in this area of "control" over our thoughts/dreams/emotions. So I completely agree with the evaluation that certain people, with given "gifts" or "abilities", can control those thoughts. The rest of us? Eh, we're just fodder for yogi jokes....Why did the mortal cross the road with a mule? To explore what was his ass' fault!*

If one believes like many Native American cultures, that this physical realm we are in here and now typing to a forum is the Dream-state and when we "dream" in this reality, it actually opens the doors to our "true reality", which is on the other side of this plane. How can we be held accountable for that? By our conscious awareness.

It's not the "thought" or the few bytes of info, rather our actions in letting those random thoughts play out or materialize like Grateful** said.

My only disagreement or opposition to this basic thinking from our Native "hosts" in America, is then why is our dream, if this conscious state is our 'dream', so linear? In this, conscious reality, we progress from infant to elder, apprentice to master all in a linear manner, unlike our altered, dream state which has us young, old, super-human, less than pig dung all in the same unaware state of sleep. That to me would be an incredibly difficult, far too random to make sense of, "reality" to live in.

Now, much of that line of thinking may well have come from a chemically induced state of being, which to the observer is just as real as sitting here and then gets translated into real, physical plane, actions. So even less within our 'control', but we do have a responsibility to the action of taking whatever (chemical/herb/potion etc) induced such thoughts.

However, in contrast to that view, I can also see, where if a person has that ability to control their thoughts, to a point of effectively relating to and positively interacting with the effects of such an chemically induced state of reality, it could well become an addictive plane of existence. This is what I think the "masters" of transcendental meditation actually accomplish. They freely move in and out of this area of the brain's abilities, and focus on the connection to the Universal Stream of conscious reality, without the substances of course.

My friends up in Hupa country, have all done a Vision Quest as part of their ritualistic, shamanistic way of life. Peyote and/or mescaline and/or certain mushrooms are drank in a "tea" and what comes of that journey is said to affect the "rest of one's life" and if properly done produces one's correct path in Life. Even the oldest one, Gray Eagle, now in his 80's, has only done this twice in his life. Once as a maturing teen to find his way, once during his difficult time as he called it, to find his way BACK to his proper path, in his 30's. It is not a "party" experience, rather an attempt to answer many of Life's deepest questions concerning Self.

Yeah, I know, but I "warned ya"! I do have a rather odd view of this topic, but to me, just as "sound" as any other. Of course that does little more than show my own need for proper medical attention and mental evaluation by the "experts"...but hey, any has been who tends to show a sporadic nature is "just an authority" IMHO!

But alas my friend, have no worries, you are technically crazy for even thinking in such a way. We all know that everything from the inner most recesses of our thoughts to the other side of the Universe is all a dream. Nothing is "real", there is no reality and no one lives there. We are all nothing more than fantasized neuro-reactive, fraction of a millisecond worth of synapse in The Creator's mind! So what does s/he take to induce better dreams?(2)

Blessings of Peace,

*asphalt - road- doh! :doh:

** "...I believe we are responsible for processing them in a way that causes no harm to ourselves or others; but to their origins and our responsibility for them, not so sure..." :smart:

(1) See PM in your mailbox! :inno:

(2) I've been told, by those in the "know" it's Hydra-sapien-i-craniol, a succinctly strong, pate-like concoction of hypothalamus, frontal lobe and visual cortex. :fear: (This can be served chilled on crackers or bread or eaten warm, spooned directly from the convenient, bowl shaped container it comes in.):fear: :fear:

(No need, wife has already called them!) :wacko:

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IMO, we are not responsible for thoughts or dreams which we had no play in forming. All kinds of random and unusual stuff can pop into our minds. The problem is in entertaining the negative thoughts. If we think of thoughts and dreams the way we think of temptation, it is the same. It is only when we act on these things that we become responsible for our actions. However, even dwelling on a specific negative thought may result in a change of mental or behavioral norms.

In the case of various mental illness, one may not be able to discern fantasy from reality, or at another level, be plagued with obsessive negative thought which leads to, or can be a result of, depression. Normally, we can dismiss strange thoughts and they go away, but sometimes they hang around and can afflict our thinking as we dwell on them too long. We are not responsible for the thoughts or dreams, but we are responsible for how we handle them.

spoken like a true buddhist,even tho you wouldn't identify as one.

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I would have to concur with the yes and no theory.

As someone with PTSD, I have periodic bouts of high anxiety and chronic depression which produce hellish nightmares where I actually witness gruesome murders. bodies mutilated and dumped in trash can kind of stuff.

YUCK! It is completely terrifying. They are so graphic and "real" I have even wondered if I was having visions of actual events.

I seem to be able to manage such dreams on the meds I'm taking though.

I also believe that having alot of negative emotion bottled up in me was a contributing factor. (I tend to hold on to grievances, rather than expressing them and letting them go).

If it weren't for the meds, I would surely be writing this from the Arkham Asylum.

:devil: YEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

I know what you mean about having bad thoughts, Fawzo. I have been plagued with those too and wondered if I were

under the possession of some demon.

Luckily, the meds also help in that area, and yes, RevAl, I have been told it is a chemical imbalance too.

My sanity went first, then my thyroid I wonder what I'll lose next?

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I would like to hear everyone's opinion on whether they believe they are responsible for their thoughts and dreams.

Many times it seems as if just random stuff starts entering my mind, and I wonder about the origins of thoughts and dreams and emotions. Some times the thoughts are of the most vile and evil nature and I question if whether these thoughts are creations of my own mind or are they being projected into it from some external source. On the other side of the coin there are times when information enters our minds that we have no reasonable explanation for being aware of.

So my question is should we be held responsible for traffic that passes through our awareness in our waking and dreaming states or should our responsiblities rely on how much focus we place upon individual thought forms?

We are responsible for our thoughts dreams and I would go even farther to say the contents of our lives and reality.

The mistake is in thinking our rational consciousness is our entire mind. It is more like a leaf floating on the sea of our total mind.

Either we choose to control what is in our minds or we choose not to.

We also choose to believe we are capable of doing so or not.

If you want to be conscious in your dreams there are many books on lucid dreaming that provide techniques to do so.

The images in our dreams are from our unconsciousness.

They are memories of the day, or they are symbols of the workings of our unconsciousness.

Either way they are ours.

You can be passive if you choose, and just drift through your life.

Or you can actively direct your life. Both ways you will still retain responsibility.

If you are responsible while in the the drivers seat of a moving car you might as well make the effort to drive it.

Or you can just blame the other guy you run into(society/environment), or the car itself(genetics/disability), or the cars maker(god/parents).

By the way, I have also had to deal with trauma that broke both my mind, and my body, and I have met others who have as well.

You are limited only by yourself, and your will. Everything has the possibility of being overcome. Nothing is impossible.

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I would have to concur with the yes and no theory.

As someone with PTSD, I have periodic bouts of high anxiety and chronic depression which produce hellish nightmares where I actually witness gruesome murders. bodies mutilated and dumped in trash can kind of stuff.

YUCK! It is completely terrifying. They are so graphic and "real" I have even wondered if I was having visions of actual events.

I seem to be able to manage such dreams on the meds I'm taking though.

I also believe that having alot of negative emotion bottled up in me was a contributing factor. (I tend to hold on to grievances, rather than expressing them and letting them go).

If it weren't for the meds, I would surely be writing this from the Arkham Asylum.

:devil: YEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

I know what you mean about having bad thoughts, Fawzo. I have been plagued with those too and wondered if I were

under the possession of some demon.

Luckily, the meds also help in that area, and yes, RevAl, I have been told it is a chemical imbalance too.

My sanity went first, then my thyroid I wonder what I'll lose next?

I hate to be a smart aleck in this instance, but maybe some good ole cheeseburgers was what you needed. Your illnesses will lead a vegan skeptic as myself to think your diet was responsible.

Do you think that is a possibility?

I use to eat peanuts and drink orange juice before I went to bed because I would have the greatest sexual dreams. Sometimes though dreams such as you mentioned above would invade my psyche which I hated, but the sexual dreams were so fantastic I had to take the risk.

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I use to eat peanuts and drink orange juice before I went to bed because I would have the greatest sexual dreams. Sometimes though dreams such as you mentioned above would invade my psyche which I hated, but the sexual dreams were so fantastic I had to take the risk.

Why does that not surprise me... dang, now I gotta get that idea outta my head! :lol:

:hhike:

"The principle purpose of dream meditation is to train oneself in such a way that, even during the dream state, the individual can actually experience what is known as the Clear Light." ~ The Dalai Lama

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I would like to hear everyone's opinion on whether they believe they are responsible for their thoughts and dreams.

Many times it seems as if just random stuff starts entering my mind, and I wonder about the origins of thoughts and dreams and emotions. Some times the thoughts are of the most vile and evil nature and I question if whether these thoughts are creations of my own mind or are they being projected into it from some external source. On the other side of the coin there are times when information enters our minds that we have no reasonable explanation for being aware of.

So my question is should we be held responsible for traffic that passes through our awareness in our waking and dreaming states or should our responsiblities rely on how much focus we place upon individual thought forms?

I am of the opinion that we are only responsible for our actions.

I too have an endless barrage of thoughts and images which, at night, keep me awake despite all efforts to the contrary.

These are not from external sources....they are from your mind, which is an internal source.

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~ Ugly thoughts, yeah, they happen. Do you act upon them? No? GOOD!!! :thumbu:

People are creative & sometimes that creativity isn't always pretty or up-lifting or sane. Too bad... Be nice.

When I was young my father told me that any horrible thing you could imagine has already been done :(

{ My father, well, was an unhappy man with his own problems } 'In'sane should be better than 'out'sane or 'ex'sane, right? :unsure:

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one." - Albert Einstein

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I hate to be a smart aleck in this instance, but maybe some good ole cheeseburgers was what you needed. Your illnesses will lead a vegan skeptic as myself to think your diet was responsible.

Do you think that is a possibility?

I use to eat peanuts and drink orange juice before I went to bed because I would have the greatest sexual dreams. Sometimes though dreams such as you mentioned above would invade my psyche which I hated, but the sexual dreams were so fantastic I had to take the risk.

Har Har. I only became a vegetarian recently. Sorry, no cheeseburgers here.

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I would like to hear everyone's opinion on whether they believe they are responsible for their thoughts and dreams.

Many times it seems as if just random stuff starts entering my mind, and I wonder about the origins of thoughts and dreams and emotions. Some times the thoughts are of the most vile and evil nature and I question if whether these thoughts are creations of my own mind or are they being projected into it from some external source. On the other side of the coin there are times when information enters our minds that we have no reasonable explanation for being aware of.

So my question is should we be held responsible for traffic that passes through our awareness in our waking and dreaming states or should our responsiblities rely on how much focus we place upon individual thought forms?

I believe that we hold every bit of creating which could, and possibly does affect others, against ourselves... no one is judging us, but we are our own harshest critic, and the record of creation holds every instance where our thoughtlessness has impinged upon another's free will. We all intend to clear that record to the best of our ability... The idea here is that we will come to recognize the affects of our creating and begin to take conscious control... once it is attained - time for a new class....

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There is a type of Buddhist meditation -- I think the technique is called "Mindfulness -- where we watch thoughts passsing through the mind. We don't attach importance to the thought, we just watch the thought pass through.

It is not the origen of the thought that matters. It is how we react to the thought and what we do with it.

:)

Edited by Jonathan H. B. Lobl

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There is a type of Buddhist meditation -- I think the technique is called "Mindfulness -- where we watch thoughts passsing through the mind. We don't attach importance to the thought, we just watch the thought pass through.

It is not the origen of the thought that matters. It is how we react to the thought and what we do with it.

:)

however on an advanced level, when one has mastered non-attachment, they may indeed search for the source of these thoughts. It is an important step to realize EXACTLY where these surface thoughts originate, and why...

I am more inclined to take my instruction from Hatha Yoga sources...

Traditional Yoga and meditation of the Himalayan Masters

Definition of Yoga: The first four sutras define Yoga, with that definition being expanded upon in the other sutras. In a systematic process of meditation, you gradually move your attention inward, through all the levels of your being, gaining mastery along the way (1.2). Eventually you come to rest in your true nature, which is beyond all of those levels (1.3). This action and the realization of this center of consciousness, is the meaning of Yoga.

Edited by Brother Michael Sky

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I'm glad my fuzzy, foggy mind decided to look instead of act! I thought there had been a previous discussion to what I was going to posit in a new topic. As always Fawzo, gmta!

Lately I've been having series after series of the most incredible dreams. The more I try to think about what may have triggered such obscure, abstract and obtuse dreams, from daily life, the more complex and confusing it gets as nothing would seem to indicate the actions of any given day would have compelled such dreams.

I also go back to what I said above and try and relate what I was told by Native American shaman that the "dream world" is actually reality and here, where I sit and type out this tirade is in fact our true dream...I don't think I quite get that, still, as this is such a linear reality compared to the random and completely unorganized series of dreams.

So, going back to your original supposition Fawzo, are we responsible for our dreams?

OR....

Are these visions intended to give us some form of deeper Spiritual meaning as proposed in religious texts?

Are they "messages" from our sub- and supra-consciousness intended to enlighten us, as proposed by a long line of philosophers?

Are they simply the manner in which our brain attempts to translate mental flotsam and jetsam into a physical reality?

Are they simply meaningless constructs of over active imaginations?

And, has been posited a couple of times above, emphatically "NO!" do I believe we are responsible for what we dream or think, but an astounding "YES!" that we are responsible for any action on those dreams and thoughts. I don't think this topic really got fully discussed so I'm happy to have revived it!

Blessings Be,

Edited by Atwater Vitki

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I just heard and got confirmation from a recently graduating lovely psychology student, that we humans can not create faces in our dreams. Every face we interact with and see in our dreams then isn't apparently someone our subconscious creates but someone we have seen in real life.

Which kind of shocks me because many times I have dreamed of goddesses I would love to meet in "conscious" real life and apparently I have already done so and just don't recall it, yet I feel there is no way that if I have met these folks that I could ever forget such encounters ever!

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I have both read in text books and heard in lecture the same reasoning about our inability to create faces.....however, I still have a bit of trouble with that analysis. I've quite often had very identifiable pieces of faces, like eyes of one, chin/mouth of other, nose and cheeks of yet another person I know in reality form the face of someone in my dreams and yet others I'm fairly certain I've never, ever seen before as I have a fairly good memory "thing" about faces.

I've also had happen three times, that I'm consciously aware of, seeing a completely unknown person to me in dream and then within days to a week meet that person in life. In all three occasions it turned out to be a rather horrific or intense scene when meeting them.

By supposedly "learned" people, I've been informed: (taken from study notes in my Dream Book)

"Dreams are little more than potential hopscotch and abstract thoughts of our muddled minds."

"Dreams simply represent the mind's endless questions in dramatic, play like scenarios."

"Dreams are merely representative of our desperation to rationalize cognitive thoughts that can not be made sense of."

"Throughout the course of our lives, the flotsam and jetsam of irrationality builds up into a never ending flood of creative visions put into our consciousness through dreams."

"Dreams are our reality. What we experience in what we believe to be our everyday reality is actually the dream."

So yes, absolutely, I still have more questions than answers regarding dreams and what purpose or usefulness they serve. In the case of this latest series of very off the wall visions I'm inclined to believe it just a bunch of nonsensical flotsam and jetsam playing hopscotch in my muddled mind while I desperately attempt to rationalize them! :unsure:

How about ya'll? What do you think oddball, crazy dreams try and "tell us" or inform us about?

Blessings Be,

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