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Brother Michael Sky

Out Of Place Artifacts

60 posts in this topic

According to the Book of Enoch the giant children of the fallen angels were about a mile tall. I don't recall anyone ever finding those bones, but I suppose the The Flood could have taken care of that. That alone would be cause to call them great. As to the age of the Earth... well, if you were an eternal being looking for something to do would you whip up the universe (as is) in a flash, or stretch it out over a few billion years?

"And the righteous shall arise from their sleep, and wisdom shall arise and be given unto them." - Enoch 91:10

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According to the Book of Enoch the giant children of the fallen angels were about a mile tall. I don't recall anyone ever finding those bones, but I suppose the The Flood could have taken care of that. That alone would be cause to call them great. As to the age of the Earth... well, if you were an eternal being looking for something to do would you whip up the universe (as is) in a flash, or stretch it out over a few billion years?

"And the righteous shall arise from their sleep, and wisdom shall arise and be given unto them." - Enoch 91:10

it's your thought that the folks being talked about in the book of enoch used the mile as a unit of measurement?? uh, ok..... thanks...... i needed that.....

if you are an eternal being, whats the difference between a flash and a few billion years? And how would the created beings be able to tell the difference....? perhaps we are talking about a few billion years which are nothing but a flash to our creator..... perhaps no more than a " day "?

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Next thing you know, you people are going to start looking for the Storehouses in the Sky that contain the Winds and the Four Pillars that the earth rests on.

The person who many believed allegedly wrote these things made a 4 day trip from Egypt to the edge of Cannaan take 40 years. Apparently we have to assume that a future prince of Egypt wasn't taught geography in his lessons and about his surrounding neighbors and enemies or that Moses wasn't very bright.

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it's your thought that the folks being talked about in the book of enoch used the mile as a unit of measurement?? uh, ok..... thanks...... i needed that.....

"And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells" - Enoch 7:2

It's not a precise unit, but 3000 ells = ~1 mile. That's just from the text you referenced. Laurence's translation has them at 300 cubits (~600 feet) (Enoch 7:12), but that's still pretty darn tall! :lol: I don't have a Ge'ez copy (and couldn't read it anyway) so I don't know what errors may or may not have been introduced along the way.

if you are an eternal being, whats the difference between a flash and a few billion years? And how would the created beings be able to tell the difference....? perhaps we are talking about a few billion years which are nothing but a flash to our creator..... perhaps no more than a " day "?

That's the point, I actually agree with Dan and was just arguing against the "instant creation 6000 years ago" philosophy.. I could have been clearer. :)

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so until there is conclusive proof, there is no point in discussing a topic?
I neither said that, nor implied it. And I quite honestly don't see where you got the idea that I did. :quest:

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The person who many believed allegedly wrote these things made a 4 day trip from Egypt to the edge of Cannaan take 40 years. Apparently we have to assume that a future prince of Egypt wasn't taught geography in his lessons and about his surrounding neighbors and enemies or that Moses wasn't very bright.

Moses didn't have a navigational problem, Deuteronomy 8:2 says; "Remember how the LORD your God led you all the way in the desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands." God kept them wandering on purpose, it was a 40 yr probation period.

It's not a precise unit, but 3000 ells = ~1 mile.

This may be one reason The Book of Enoch was not included in the bible. Either that, or a very bad translation error?

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"And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells" - Enoch 7:2

It's not a precise unit, but 3000 ells = ~1 mile. That's just from the text you referenced. Laurence's translation has them at 300 cubits (~600 feet) (Enoch 7:12), but that's still pretty darn tall! :lol: I don't have a Ge'ez copy (and couldn't read it anyway) so I don't know what errors may or may not have been introduced along the way.

That's the point, I actually agree with Dan and was just arguing against the "instant creation 6000 years ago" philosophy.. I could have been clearer. :)

On this basis; why not say that the Creation is an on-going process -- which is still happening?

Jonathan Lobl

:)

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Moses didn't have a navigational problem, Deuteronomy 8:2 says; "Remember how the LORD your God led you all the way in the desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands." God kept them wandering on purpose, it was a 40 yr probation period.

This may be one reason The Book of Enoch was not included in the bible. Either that, or a very bad translation error?

Sure he did just like he kept Jonah in the belly of a large fish for three days and Noah on an Ark with hundreds of millions of animals for a year.

I think your statement that an Omniscient diety has to test you in order to KNOW what is in your heart needs some serious self introspection on your part!!!

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when i read the stories and tales and teachings from all the religious and spiritual texts that i read on a daily basis, i do my best to consider that there may have been translation issues, there may have been changes to the various texts, that there may have been simple misunderstandings which introduce confusion...

with the amount of references to giants to be found one has to wonder exactly what are they referring to....

There are specific points that were being made, i wonder at times exactly what they were...

i found a few interesting quotes from the edgar cayce readings....:

TEXT OF READING 2802-1 M 35 (D.C., Theosophist)

11. In the one before this we find when the second coming of the souls into the earth's plane, the entity among those who gave the first of the dwellings for groups, and in the name then called Eos, for the entity then of giant stature and of those who were called the Sons of the Highest, for there come many of the first rules as were sought by these first peoples. See, this was before the day of the flood. [see 364-7, Par. 6-A, 4/5/32, giving further explanation.]

TEXT OF READING 5748-3

4. Then, as these were gathered from the five nations, we find the subjects of those pertaining to manifestations of the development of man and man's ability to cope with the conditions, and the forces wherein men were given their supremacy over the other conditions in the earth's plane. And the first as was given by the ruler was, then, [that] the force that gives man, in his weak state, as it were, the ability to subdue and overcome the great beasts that inhabit the plane of man's existence must come from a higher source. Hence the first law of self-preservation in the physical plane attributed to Divine or Higher Forces. Just as the elements adding to the betterment of man's condition in the earth plane, we have then the rudiments of that as was taught. Hence began, as given, the study of the indwelling of that other than man's physical prowess, yet there were many men of giant stature to meet the conditions as seen, yet the approach of that same force to some was reached through the power, heat, significance of Sun's force, of Moon's wane, of waters bringing forth all manners of organisms necessary for developments in the plane.

curious huh?

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Sure he did just like he kept Jonah in the belly of a large fish for three days and Noah on an Ark with hundreds of millions of animals for a year.

I think your statement that an Omniscient diety has to test you in order to KNOW what is in your heart needs some serious self introspection on your part!!!

I thought it was because Moses was a man; and refused to ask for directions.

Jonathan Lobl

:)

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Digressing from giants for a moment...

Pondering the political debates around here lately reminded me of another article linked through the ooparts site, so I thought I'd sew some threads together a bit. Hang in there, it all makes sense by the end. To begin, and since I'm a relative noob around here, I should share that I believe the only fair and moral system of government is Anarchism. I believe the same concept holds true for religion and science (they just use different currency; faith and information, respectively, instead of cash, though civil rights weaves through them all.)

No matter the subject, when we drop back from our own perspectives long enough to see that the rules of the game change depending on where we're standing or how much we've learned, we can recognize the futility of stubbornly clinging to one ideology over another. A wise man once said "Everything is relative." Ok, more than one wise man has said it. If life is fluid, how are we to contain it in these webs we weave? We don't know it all, and we never will. Without such omniscience, it is but arrogance to claim to have any sort of authority over another at all.

The flaw with the anarchic system, of course, is that most of us aren't yet mature enough to handle that kind of responsibility. I blame part of it on our weakly developed sense of empathym but we are an awful young species. It's useful, but cruelty and greed are much more efficient survival tools. The problem is, Life only cares that you live. It cares nothing for your comfort and less for anyone else's. It is up to us to *choose* to develop further than beasts. If you think anarchy means doing whatever you want, or that it must be achieved by force of arms, you've just demonstrated that you are not yet ready for it. So, if so many of us are still children, shouldn't we then still tell each other what to do? The answer is no. Don't like that word? Neither do children. How many more uncounted generations of suffering will it take to recognize that this approach doesn't work? Isn't even one too many?

You see, nature doesn't change unless it's under pressure. That's why ants and squid and sharks and such have hardly (relatively speaking) changed in tens or hundreds of millions of years. They didn't need to. Yet, somehow, after all this time, we still cling to the notion that by tweaking the system or "sacred-text-bashing" our neighbors or collecting enough knowledge, that we can design the perfect solution to all our woes. The irony is, we already have one in place. One built into us from the beginning... it's called "Grow The Hell Up". Like those primordial creatures, we'll never be motivated to do it until we feel the pressure. I know, I know, it's a thoroughly unpleasant chore. Guess who avoids their chores? Yep.

The question of old has been, how to get there from here? It's simple. Lay down your weapons, be they words or laws or bits of old bone and behave yourselves. It's not easy, but it's good for you. And when some of us still act like spoiled brats, treat each other with love and you'll be surprised how quickly it all turns around. Well, unless you're dead, then you're gonna have to catch it on YouTube... but Fear does not exist in this dojo! Your safety is an illusion, release it.

Here's a suggestion: start with our children. Stop sending them off to places (you know, like schools) where it's illegal for them to receive moral instruction during the most formative times of their lives. Part-time parenting? Are you kidding me? We all need to be guided constantly. No wonder we go right from school into another system (you know, jobs) where morality has no place beyond the law, where compassion is shunned and anything goes (if you can get away with it). Sorry man, just business. We've run out of room to run, and we have to face the reality that we've always been a global village. As talented as we are, you'd think we could act like one.

So, to sum up:

Science isn't about proof, it's about probabilities.

Religion isn't about commands, it's about guides.

And the only governing we have to do is of ourselves.

All these aspects overlap, and when we forget even one of these things we stop growing. What's worse, we prevent each other from growing. If you want to evolve, it's gotta hurt. But don't worry, love will heal the wound. The amazing power of Love is such that it transcends even (insert favorite divinity) For when you take (him/her/it/them) out of the equation, it is still our wisest course of action.

~~* :lol::inno::lol: Just another reminder from your friendly neighborhood bodhi. :lol::inno::lol: *~~

And yes, while I still confine myself to agreed upon conventions, I reject the laws of grammar by placing my periods willy-nilly around the quotes and parens. Aren't I a rogue?! (Please don't kill me!!) :devil:

Now back to the Giants, already in progress... kick those Bums in the arse! :kiss:

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when i read the stories and tales and teachings from all the religious and spiritual texts that i read on a daily basis, i do my best to consider that there may have been translation issues, there may have been changes to the various texts, that there may have been simple misunderstandings which introduce confusion...

with the amount of references to giants to be found one has to wonder exactly what are they referring to....

There are specific points that were being made, i wonder at times exactly what they were...

i found a few interesting quotes from the edgar cayce readings....:

TEXT OF READING 2802-1 M 35 (D.C., Theosophist)

11. In the one before this we find when the second coming of the souls into the earth's plane, the entity among those who gave the first of the dwellings for groups, and in the name then called Eos, for the entity then of giant stature and of those who were called the Sons of the Highest, for there come many of the first rules as were sought by these first peoples. See, this was before the day of the flood. [see 364-7, Par. 6-A, 4/5/32, giving further explanation.]

TEXT OF READING 5748-3

4. Then, as these were gathered from the five nations, we find the subjects of those pertaining to manifestations of the development of man and man's ability to cope with the conditions, and the forces wherein men were given their supremacy over the other conditions in the earth's plane. And the first as was given by the ruler was, then, [that] the force that gives man, in his weak state, as it were, the ability to subdue and overcome the great beasts that inhabit the plane of man's existence must come from a higher source. Hence the first law of self-preservation in the physical plane attributed to Divine or Higher Forces. Just as the elements adding to the betterment of man's condition in the earth plane, we have then the rudiments of that as was taught. Hence began, as given, the study of the indwelling of that other than man's physical prowess, yet there were many men of giant stature to meet the conditions as seen, yet the approach of that same force to some was reached through the power, heat, significance of Sun's force, of Moon's wane, of waters bringing forth all manners of organisms necessary for developments in the plane.

curious huh?

And how much weight do you give to the fact that the people writing these articles were late Bronze Age and Early Iron Age men who lived in a world full of mythological exaggerated stories and myths?

Or do you personally feel that every story has its basis in some truth. Take a many headed Hydra for instance.

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And how much weight do you give to the fact that the people writing these articles were late Bronze Age and Early Iron Age men who lived in a world full of mythological exaggerated stories and myths?

Or do you personally feel that every story has its basis in some truth. Take a many headed Hydra for instance.

I'm not sure exactly which articles from the LBA and EIA men you are referring to......

I wasn't necessarily referring to the stuff from the site... I've said earlier that i wouldn't personally vouch for the things on the site... just a resource for articles to track down and such...

Personally, until i have verification that a story is indeed true, it must remain, at best, simply a possibility ( with various degrees of probability ).....

and the reason i posted the info from the cayce readings is because they mention many of the topics which you will stumble upon on the ooparts site...

Including mention of " mythological " creatures as living breathing animals...

TEXT OF READING 364-10

To what uses, then, did the early Atlanteans give their

efforts, and in what directions were they active? As many

almost as there were individuals! Some sought expression in

one field, some in another. There were in those who in that

same period were able to reach such a high consciousness of

the Creator that it was not necessary for them to again pass

through this plane. "And Enoch walked with God: and he WAS

not; for God took him."

Some became workers in brass, iron, silver, and gold. Some

turned to music and the perfection of musical instruments.

These first forms of expression are to be found in the world

today. That upon which a soul has fed, that which has been

its ladder of expression and development in past

incarnations, is today the means of its self-expression.

Those whom we call geniuses are entities whose soul forces

have found and do find activity in some particular line.

Many entities brought about monstrosities, as those of their

association by projection with their association with beasts

of various kinds. The Styx, satyr, mermaid, unicorn, and the

like were the results.

What i try not to do fawzo, is to let my rational mind convince my inner witness that the unknown is the same as the unlikely.... i simply withhold judgement, no matter how ridiculous.... leave the possibility dangling, should a connection be made....

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And how much weight do you give to the fact that the people writing these articles were late Bronze Age and Early Iron Age men who lived in a world full of mythological exaggerated stories and myths?

Or do you personally feel that every story has its basis in some truth. Take a many headed Hydra for instance.

In biology, nature follows certain patterns. Animals either have fur/hair/whiskers or feathers. Never both. From this, we see that angels, with hair and feathers, are improbable.

Nature does not have any known examples of combining cold blooded creatures, such as fish -- with warm blooded creatures. This makes the classic mermaid very unlikely.

The classic giant is theoreticly possible, in my opinion. Having said that, possible does not translate into likely. At some point, a specimen must be produced. Or at least evidence that the creature used to exist. Where is the creature? Where are the bones? Where are the footprints? Where is the fossil? Anything?

Jonathan Lobl

:)

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In biology, nature follows certain patterns. Animals either have fur/hair/whiskers or feathers. Never both. From this, we see that angels, with hair and feathers, are improbable.

Nature does not have any known examples of combining cold blooded creatures, such as fish -- with warm blooded creatures. This makes the classic mermaid very unlikely.

The classic giant is theoreticly possible, in my opinion. Having said that, possible does not translate into likely. At some point, a specimen must be produced. Or at least evidence that the creature used to exist. Where is the creature? Where are the bones? Where are the footprints? Where is the fossil? Anything?

Jonathan Lobl

:)

There are some falsified photo's near the beginning of the thread. Does that count?

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There are some falsified photo's near the beginning of the thread. Does that count?

In a search for the truth? No. At least, not for me.

If fools and rogues would stop hoaxing; a better case could be made.

Jonathan Lobl

:rolleyes:

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In biology, nature follows certain patterns. Animals either have fur/hair/whiskers or feathers. Never both. From this, we see that angels, with hair and feathers, are improbable.

Nature does not have any known examples of combining cold blooded creatures, such as fish -- with warm blooded creatures. This makes the classic mermaid very unlikely.

The classic giant is theoreticly possible, in my opinion. Having said that, possible does not translate into likely. At some point, a specimen must be produced. Or at least evidence that the creature used to exist. Where is the creature? Where are the bones? Where are the footprints? Where is the fossil? Anything?

Jonathan Lobl

smile.gif

I think some Australopithecus afarensis skeletal remains have been found that reached 9 foot tall. I'll have to double check that later.

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another curious link.... this time from the Urantia Book:

from the Urantia Book timeline... Urantia Book Timeline

here it is:

200,000 B.C. - 30 A.D. - The rebel forces of Lucifer are allowed to run a free course. The postrebellion era witnessed many unusual happenings. A great civilization--the culture of Dalamatia--was disintegrating. "The Nephilim (Nodites) were on earth in those days, and when these sons of the gods went in to the daughters of men and they bore to them, their children were the 'mighty men of old,' the 'men of renown."' While hardly "sons of the gods," Caligastia's staff and their early descendants were so regarded in those distant days; even their stature came to be magnified by tradition. This is the origin of the well-nigh universal folk tales and legends of the gods who came down to earth and there with the daughters of men begot an ancient race of heroes - (The Urantia Book, 53:5.3; 77:2.3)

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