Pete Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 2 Timothy 3:16 “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,” This verse is often used by some to try to prove that the Bible is the God given word and it is therefore infallible. There is much debate as to whether Paul wrote this letter. Paul was said to be executed in 62AD and the letter was written in 67AD. This has led to many arguments as to when Paul was killed and some have tried to extend Paul’s life to accommodate this issue. There is also much debate as to the style of the letter being different from other written material of Paul’s. This has led many theologians to call - 2 Timothy a “Pastoral letter” (i.e. written by some unknown person in early Christianity, but not Paul). ‘1 Timothy’ and ‘Titus’ are also considered Pastoral letters. Some early Christians (Syria Orthodox for example) refused to accept the 2 Timothy as genuine and thought it a forgery. So let us now consider the verse in relation to the Bible. The Old Testament was agreed to be scripture by the Jews in 90AD at the Council of Jamnia and the New Testament was declared scripture by the Eight Council (at Carthage) in 397AD. Therefore, 2 Timothy, being written in 67AD preceded any recognition of the Bible (OT & NT) as scripture. This is not to say that many writings were not treated as scripture even if they were not fully recognized as such. The verse is believed to refer to the importance of scriptural writings in educating of new Christians. It is not meant to mean that the Bible or Scripture is somehow infallible and God spoken (IMO). The term used does not even mean “scriptural writings” (Grammata) but uses the word “Grapha” (meaning the process of describing and the grasping of moral or metaphysical truths). In other words it can be understood that all seeking of God and finding truths is God breathed. The Bible can be used to do this and indeed is important to all Christians, but in no way is the verse saying that the Bible is an exclusive way to do this. In this understanding, the verse makes sense to me, given some of the terrible things spoken of in some passages of the Bible. The Bible does have lessons that I feel are important but it also shows some of the very human mistakes that we can make in our understanding too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevRainbow Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I have no difficulty in accepting this perspective and tend to agree with you, Pete. My problem lies with the folks who are constantly getting " a word from the Lord." If they indeed are getting God-breathed information, should that not also be included in scripture? This ties in to what you were saying, and I believe God does speak to us through His Spirit, but it is for our spiritual education, correction and sometimes, rebuke. The "letters" of the NT are just that, letters written so that believers in Christ would have a foundation and direction to base their lives on. As usual, those who seek power have used what we term sacred writings to control people rather than set them free. This is true in any corporate religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Michael Sky Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) I have no difficulty in accepting this perspective and tend to agree with you, Pete. My problem lies with the folks who are constantly getting " a word from the Lord." If they indeed are getting God-breathed information, should that not also be included in scripture? This ties in to what you were saying, and I believe God does speak to us through His Spirit, but it is for our spiritual education, correction and sometimes, rebuke. The "letters" of the NT are just that, letters written so that believers in Christ would have a foundation and direction to base their lives on. As usual, those who seek power have used what we term sacred writings to control people rather than set them free. This is true in any corporate religion.I wonder at times if we would meet these writers today, would we consider them psychics? did they " get a word from the Lord " the same way? Does that, knowing what we know today about psychic phenomena, allow us to view scripture in an entire new light? Does it explain and excuse seeming conflicts within the text? so many questions......However, ........ Infallible..... such a definite, concrete word.... Is anything in this world infallible??? Is it supposed to be? That question seems more apropos....yes i agree with the idea here... Edited January 30, 2010 by Brother Michael Sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted January 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I have no difficulty in accepting this perspective and tend to agree with you, Pete. My problem lies with the folks who are constantly getting " a word from the Lord." If they indeed are getting God-breathed information, should that not also be included in scripture? This ties in to what you were saying, and I believe God does speak to us through His Spirit, but it is for our spiritual education, correction and sometimes, rebuke. The "letters" of the NT are just that, letters written so that believers in Christ would have a foundation and direction to base their lives on. As usual, those who seek power have used what we term sacred writings to control people rather than set them free. This is true in any corporate religion.I believe scripture is an educational tool. I feel the real voice of God is in the heart and not in any given scripture. Scripture or anything else only speaks when it means something to the heart of a person. It is a tool to understanding and not an end in itself. No one I know is going to feel close to God just because they are reading a book. That only occurs when one allows ones prayers, relationship with God, readings, ministry, and love to change and guide one. That is where the real scripture lies, not in any text, no matter how profound (IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawzo Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I believe scripture is an educational tool. I feel the real voice of God is in the heart and not in any given scripture. Scripture or anything else only speaks when it means something to the heart of a person. It is a tool to understanding and not an end in itself. No one I know is going to feel close to God just because they are reading a book. That only occurs when one allows ones prayers, relationship with God, readings, ministry, and love to change and guide one. That is where the real scripture lies, not in any text, no matter how profound (IMO).Agreed.Many times I have had trees, flowers and other elements of nature make me feel just as close to the Divine as any of the various Sacred writings that mankind treasures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Agreed.Many times I have had trees, flowers and other elements of nature make me feel just as close to the Divine as any of the various Sacred writings that mankind treasures.Although grapha does refer to writing in the process given, I have to agree with you. Sometimes life can be more spiritually moving than all scripture put together (IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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