lleachii

My deepest sympathy. ~Rev. LLEACHII Washington, DC

(please note, I haven't had a chance to look at some of the recent posts, but I wanted to post this before the thread got cold) My apologies, I thought that not only were you seeking support in this matter; but a way to actually succeed in legitimately using religious reasons for not contributing to the union. I for one am not debating, but laying my knowledge and ideas on the table to help you fight this battle. I believe those who provided a rundown of some very informative points have given you enough substance in preparing a response to the union and your employer that may actually work. Explaining about your church, the ULC's doctrine and especially the point below will be successful in preparing your argument. I would shy away from giving them "Reverend Cheryl's Theology 101;" but more of a general overview of the doctrine you have chosen to follow. Let me close by saying I think this was a good discussion and I hope you have some ammunition to take with you. ~Rev. LLEACHII

as it should be. The point of the union is to provide labor with leverage so they may stand on an equal footing in negotiations. The individual employee has no leverage. BH, It seems to me that you don't object to being associated with unions so much as object to being associated with THIS union, which you represent to be corrupt. To me, addressing the corruption is the correct path, but, I am me, and you are you. Good luck. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is what I am referring to when I mentioned the "closed shop." Even though she may believe the vote to become union was unfair, it still occurred. That legally obligates every employee to contribute to the union establishment. When she was hired it was a closed shop, and even if she was there before the union came in, she knows that it became a closed shop. There is no way around that. ~Rev. LLEACHII

I agree with that kokigami. In fact, would seem to be her only valid argument. Also, you are and ordained minister of this church, therefore you can (within reason) interpret what you believe that doctrine to mean. ~Rev. LLEACHII

Rev. Cheryl, Thanks for the kudos. My sister, I would just like to note to you that if you wish to claim a religious status from the union, you must prepare a well-written case noting your religious reasons for claiming the exemption. If they wish the information of the ULC, list yourself as the pastor and fill out other info as necessary. While your motives seem spiritual in nature, they are not specifically because our church's doctrine specifically forbids membership in an organization, namely a labor union. Your wish to be exempted seems to be more on the basis of issues that occurred in the union have not been the most (I'll use the word:) noble of an organized group. I'm not sure if that would legally fit the rule of opting out for religious reasons. While I am pro-union (which is odd, because I have been upper management at some of my previous employments), what you describe as taking place within this union is very unbecoming and is a disgrace to the organized union structures I have seen in other parts of the nation. I wish you much luck; but I have never seen exemption on the basis that your religious convictions has shined light on the unbecoming actions of this union. I have only seen exemption because the religious organization strictly forbids membership in the union, such as the Amish and certain ministerial orders of Catholic Church who's members may seek secular employment. ~Rev. LLEACHII

I know this is a long post; but I hope its informative. This is a very sticky situation, and I do not know particularly how the first amendment would apply to labor law in this situation. What I do know is this: the union environment provides you protection weather you are a member or not. Its very difficult to believe that while you work for an organization, that if your fellow co-workers benefit from any negotiation they may experience due to their representation by the union (negotiation of a raise, time off, better health benefits, etc.), that 1.) you will also benefit, though you do not pay union dues or a representation fee (which is not considered membership in the union, that is actually the option to OPT OUT of union representation) and 2.) you claim religious status. I am curious, as a fellow minister, to know what your religious beliefs are that compel you not to choose representation by a union (so I can better discuss the concern here) or prevent you from joining a union. I am aware of some Catholic nuns, brothers and priests in particular religious orders whom still seek normal employment, most of them are not allowed to join labor organizations, for that matter, they are not allowed to join many secular other organizations either (organizations such as the Red Cross, Volunteer Fire Departments [mainly as Chaplains], etc. are usually excluded). Usually (but not always, in 95% percent of all cases), the religious organization of which the employee claims status will represent the employee in labor matters (this is more than likely why the wish to have the information). Claming religious status means the religious organization STRICTLY forbids membership in a union. Also, opting out by choosing representation-fee-only or religious status will not allow you to file a grievance should the need occur. As a representation-fee-only, you still benefit from what benefits the union negotiates for and wins, as a religious exemption, the employer may choose not to adjust your pay, benefits, etc. if the union wins an increase in benefits, and the kicker would be, they would not be legally obligated to do so either. I am not sure of the motives or rational in claming religious status, but religious status is not freedom from union/representation dues or labor-related protection. If your shop or department of employees voted and choose to have a labor representative (that then becomes a closed shop), ALL employees MUST be represented in some form or fashion (management excluded), that is what is meant by the union term “closed shop,†the shop (or place of business) is closed to everyone but those represented by a union. In conclusion Rev Cheryl, if you are indeed an underpaid, overworked Washington State employee, it seems as if Union is the way to go. ~Rev. LLEACHII