VonNoble
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Posts posted by VonNoble
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On 9/23/2017 at 7:59 AM, Key said:
Regret is only the recognition of missed or lost possibilities of opportunities or experiences. Kind of like hindsight. One can look at the past, but nothing can be done to change it.
When I first read that I agree as I often say that too - - can't do anything about having an unhappy childhood so let it go (or things like that)....however - after giving it some thought that is only partially accurate. On the surface true enough. But that hindsight might also be the gain of maturity from the experience..the gain of perspective. A lesson learned. So the process of learning from it (presumably so we don't repeat it) - - we will in fact change (or be changed by it)......
Perhaps we will own up to our own contribution to our residual guilt, frustration, pent up anger or whatever.....( maybe we release these emotions BY ASKING for forgiveness or at least offering an apology) might be in this mix somewhere. I am still processing it but appreciate your giving me some running room to think on it. Is forgiveness (or seeking it) necessary? Beneficial? still working on it....
von
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Anyone out there skip taking your share of whatever (to make sure others all all satisfied and full) before you fill your plate or eat your fill? Anyone make sure that the chipped plate or cup is always at your place setting? You hesitate to take the best or biggest for yourself? Anyone fuming in silence to avoid a conflict? (only to realize YOU are suffering in silence with resentment building?)
REVERSING THE QUESTIONS....
Anyone speaking up and grabbing your fair share without waiting to see what others do?
Anyone taking the cracked plate and chipped cup and just tossing it in the garbage removing it as an option for all?
Anyone defusing conflict with humor and gentle honesty?
Anyone refusing to suffer any longer (or any more fools) because you politely clarified your position rather than suffering in silence yet again? Would you speak up a second time based on the first time?
Sometimes being selfish is a confused concept. Maybe often.
Then again - sometimes I am confused way too often.
Getting selfish has some immediate rewards, yes?
Maybe even long term rewards...(any to share?)
von
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On 9/30/2017 at 8:26 AM, RevBogovac said:
This is so true too... I have been on the verge of death (actually over it; I "flatlined" in the intensive care and "they" luckily revived me), I have been in war twice ('91 & '94) and I have been in (at least) 3 (severe) motorcycle accidents. I thought I was a "tough nut to crack". Right up to the point when my oldest daughter fell and stayed lying on the floor unconscious... I couldn't even remember the emergency phone number (the equivalent of the US's 911, in Europe that's 112). Just froze.
But that still doesn't change the "average"... and on "average" one is always his own best asset. But fortunately we have people around us (or, at l east, we should have) for those "outlier" moments.
First, I am happy that both you and your daughter made it through those crisis moments!
I have been mulling this over for awhile. I still think us being out own best resource is somehow not quite right.
I WANT it to be that. Then again, the easiest person for me to deceive is me. So how reliable is my evaluation that
I am the greatest be?
The person to my left or right might think faster, act faster or just naturally be smarter than I am.
Often (I may be a freak of nature) but too often MY instincts were not that great. Sometimes doing nothing can be the best solution.
I might WANT to (usually out of fear) get up and get moving - but sometimes not listening to me and holding for a few more seconds doing nothing is more effective.
Still working on this one. My gut says you gotta be right at some level but there is something that tells me - I am never
as great as I wanna believe I am.
(reality check: Anyone married for a long time has a partner more than willing to keep egos in check) 
von
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8 hours ago, Key said:
Actually this could be viewed as a circular power construction. What is written could have been done so to steer those who could read to herd those who couldn't in a certain direction, thus making solid their position. Therefore, what is written may be suspect of hidden agendas, and would not really be credible as something to fall back on.
It all comes back to what folks are willing to believe, without verifiable evidence as proof.
This seems to flow as probable to me. Thx for the posting.
Von
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15 hours ago, AmberLF said:
I just feel without well researched and written things to fall back on in times of confusion is just wise. I'm just saying perhaps equal parts might be a better, more honest and equal path to learning them.
Thanks for the posting. I understand what you are saying - there is some degree of validity there.
However, still, the written word historically (and currently) is the source of some of that confusion.
When they don't agree - everyone points fingers. All holding the book ...and pointing fingers.
So the book (the written version) - doesn't seem to reduce confusion, maybe?
Von
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1 hour ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
The Aborigines are not political. They never took it upon themselves, to travel across the world -- replacing all the other mythologies with their own.
thx... I needed that....
von
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1 hour ago, Brother Kaman said:
How does one know the tribal oral traditions have remained unchanged? Does one take the word of the storyteller that he is repeating verbatim as was told to him and hasn't added or subtracted from the story? End the end we all have to just "believe" something we are told is true unless we can reproduce the results for ourselves.
You have a good point. I guess I am influenced from a cultural anthropology class I took years ago. It was a pretty convincing argument for the validity of oral traditions. Researchers showed (with supporting scientifically dated artifacts) that much of the cultural and spiritual traditions of Australia's aborigines has remained unchanged (or little changed) over a couple thousand years at least. We saw a rather long documentary (ran two classes long) (and it was fascinating)...therein were lots of supporting materials. It was a long time ago but my take away of it all being fairly well substantiated has stuck with me (even if all the details I got tested on were long forgotten.)
I miss my very sharp memory - it served me well for a long time.
von
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4 hours ago, AmberLF said:
Without something written to refer back to, well... you can easily lose the origins that way. At least early records can make it possible for someone to compare modern to past and figure out if those original ideas still really do fit today's contest.
Considering for more than two centuries the followers of every holy text ....cannot agree 1) on the origins even with it in writing 2) the meaning of the context 3) the rituals and reverence required 4) which parts are literal and which are not .... it seems like the written version is under attack from within ... and continuously births new versions of itself... morphs and progresses .....till any connection is fairly unrecognizable from the original, maybe...
As opposed in some cases to tribal traditions which have remained unchanged for eons....
Thx for the exchange of ideas
von
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4 hours ago, AmberLF said:
Some silly sense of entitlement seems to have washed it out for a fair number of us over here. People tend to just do or take or be without worry or care of consequences to those around them these days.
Do you attribute that change to anything in particular?
von
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4 hours ago, AmberLF said:
I don't know about this part.... As an American I see guilt complexes pretty strong in some people but the vast majority these days don't seem to have that anymore.
You may be right... returning to school has taught me daily I am from a different time and place. Yet, I think the drug epidemic points to a largely discontented bunch of citizens. My Buddhist friends ( much younger than I am) point to guilt and low self esteem.
my friends were more inclined to drink firvan escape and I most often heard guilt as a major player (again from the senior citizen crowd).... NOW I just leave and don't listen.
....thx for your input and welcome to the FORUM.
von
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Just now, Brother Kaman said:
I do not choose to feel guilty. That is one emotional response I have managed to completely control.
Thank you. When speaking with the couple of Buddhist friends I have (neither from the United States) they note that for whatever reasons, Americans have guilt issues much if the time.
To to make matters worse it invades their centering because the quit time quickly becomes self recrimination.
That made me curious if you had familiarity with that phenomenon. Since you indicate you no longer do, congratulations are in order there as it was explained to be that is a leap forward.
i am stumbling forward and find it helps to know others sort of advance when they stay with it
intellectualky i I know this is so...but emotionally some days it is less clear
thx again
von
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17 hours ago, cuchulain said:
I am beginning to think we fell for Trolling again...
i Thad to look up what "Trolling" means
-perhaps U R correct
von
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19 minutes ago, Brother Kaman said:
I am sorry, I don't understand your question. Are you asking if I get emotional (guilty) when I have difficulty keeping other emotions balanced?
Yes thx
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On 10/3/2017 at 9:42 PM, VonNoble said:
When we instruct a child when is it a lesson and when is it an
imposition of OUR view, OUR way, OUR belief?
When is it teaching and when is it indoctrination?
Culturally, do we insulate our children too much?
Are parents defining the parents success in life - in terms of the kids? Are parents using the kids to validate that they have been successful in life - thereby defining their worth as humans in terms of how the kids turn out?
von
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17 hours ago, Brother Kaman said:
Don't get too hopeful. Just because one can intellectualize a concept does not necessarily mean one can live it. When I was in the second grade, my brother and I were walking home from school. As we approached a church, I picked up a rock and threw it, striking the church wall. My brother told me I would burn in hell for striking G/god's house. I already ,knew that G/god did not sleep or take his meals there. It still took me most of my adult life to realize the Christian (and later other religion's) G/god's could not exist as described by their holy books. Sorry if that last part does not fit the topic. I used it only as an illustration.
I think it fits the topic nicely. Your awareness and evolution of thought is about self discovery.
Several years ago I read somewhere (possibly on this Forum) that as we mature as human beings - our understanding of "god/God" changes right along with us. You just seemed to get there faster (in chronologic years) than many of us - good for you.
In that growth process, we might for example be comforted by the all benevolent and forgiving father.
Later we are less dependent on the concept of God/god.
Eventually we grow up (if we work at it) and we realize that WE are responsible for happy in our lives.
TOO....at that point - we also see the other side of things and take responsibility fully for our actions. Each choice has a consequence and causes, in some way - whatever happens next.
Is that about right or how you see it too?
von
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15 hours ago, cuchulain said:
I think the Buddhist understanding is that through desire we suffer. The cause of our suffering in interactions with others most often arises out of unsatisfied desires of the outcome of those desires. In other words, we build anticipation, and thus disappointment.
Well said. And I agree. At least i can intellectually "get" that.
Do you think we have difficulty seeing it is "us" most of the time?
Lots of folks are really quick to point fingers elsewhere instead of inward, maybe?
von
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16 hours ago, Brother Kaman said:
I have no key to controlling an emotional response beyond working to discipline one's self. Like all disciplines, it is not easy from what I have observed by my behavior and that of others.
Perhaps "control" was not quite accurate.
All of us assess our progress (usually at the end of the day) and often focus on the on thing we got wrong rather than the 100 we got right. In trying to keep emotions and assessments balanced (and celebrate your worth not just what you need to course correct) do you have method to redirect your thoughts.
In visiting with others I often hear what I presume is either frustration (not too patient with the process for many) or else guilt. So often it seems people feel guilty so much of the time (or that is what I hear) - do you find that as well?
von
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After joining a free local Apple support group (at least I seek help when I need it) ...and following several postings
about the Apple 8 - I think I am going to wait till after the first of the year to purchase one. It seems there are a few
bugs to work out (for sure on the X but I had decided against one of those - I just don't use it enough to justify it.
But even the 8 seems to have maybe been rushed out to market.
von
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On 10/8/2017 at 1:09 PM, Brother Kaman said:
I think I was about 14 years old when I came to realize that I had to exist before anything could matter to me which in turn led me to believe that I had to be the most important person in the world from my perspective. That doesn't mean I would not be willing to die for another but if I did do so, nothing else would ever matter.
It took me way longer than it took you to catch on... so I am officially impressed
.gif ":thumbu:")
After I really sat back and considered not just what you said but the impact upon a life to realize that ( esp at a young age)....I really appreciate your sharing it... it comes bringing hope with it
von
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On 5/15/2017 at 1:17 PM, ULCneo said:
BUT, how do you know that "your own conscience" isn't defective? What? is it built in complete with an cyclic-redunant error checking system? So therefore, one has to subject their "Conscience" to an outside source as a standard of measure.
By the way others react to me.
von
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6 hours ago, Dan56 said:
I believe another person can cause you to be sad or happy... Anyone's who's been married can probably attest to that. (Some times a Princess, other times a bitch)
Had to chuckle at that second sentence. I have been married for 45 years so I know whereof you speak.
However, maybe it is OUR REACTION to what is said that causes the emotion to fly up.
You would walk into my local Starbucks and on a normal day....I can say....."Hey let me buy you a cup of coffee"
No issue there. We enjoy our chat and coffee.
The next day....for whatever reason you are feeling poorly as someone (maybe the not princess person) accused you of being a tightwad or something and your reaction is hyper sensitive to taking freebies from others. You have been stewing for the past 20 minutes about how YOU DO pay your fair share and that other person is just a block head.....who doesn't know a thing about you and on it goes - all the while getting more and more and ore worked up over the unfair accusation.
NOW you walk in and I say: "Hey let me buy you a cup of coffee" And you snap at me and say "NO THANKS...I can buy my own darn coffee."
Same Starbucks....same me....same you...same sentence. DIFFEENT REACTION
Who changed the dynamic but you?
it is our reaction that shifts, no? At times we are amused by stupid comments. At times we overreact.
The choice of reaction is always ours, no?
von
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15 hours ago, Brother Kaman said:
No one can make us feel guilty and no one can make us love them. We are the authors of our emotions.
Agreed. The key to keeping those emotions on an even keel?
von
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15 hours ago, mark 45 said:
*however*it is a fact that in practice,we can indeed become upset with others.and yes sometimes we get very verbal about it.or we can freeze someone out of our thoughts or even life.either can be very hurtful.
I agree. Moving toxic people out of our lives could be hurtful.
Then again, it is only hurtful because we WANT the to be different, no?
It is because we WANT it to be different, yes?
von
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Many people have shaped the world view for each of us. Some would argue every contact has added at least one drop.
A Buddhist teacher explained it with much better imagery-essentially each of us just floats alone... on a raft. We can tie our raft to others for a time...but no other person can make us happy on this journey. Conversely no other person can cause us to be sad either.
Was as the Buddhist teacher correct?
If yes, than another person is not the source of anger within any of us?
von
Read...then discuss
in Monotheist Theologies & Scriptures
Posted
Yes!