VonNoble
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Posts posted by VonNoble
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Thanks to both of you - for a confirmation that I am not quite as addled as I sometimes think I might be....
I could not think of a single way to tell in a photo (without some sort of directional reference point re: east or west.
There are days I find I just have to really THINK before answering.
My dad used to claim he had slowed down because the computer in his brain had far more information to
sort through due to more life experience. (then he would laugh)
Now my dad DID know a ton of stuff. So much so people assumed he was always telling the truth and that he
would actually have so many facts and figures in his head at all times. However - he had little problem throwing
out BS to throw anyone not fully engaged in the conversation. If they didn't pay full attention to him - he would
dazzle the half listeners. And smile while doing it. He just made it up and got more and more outlandish till they
realized he was messing with them.
Thx again...kids sometimes refresh ones' curiosity...they do see the world differently.
von
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14 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
Perhaps you should take the class first -- then -- if you find any value in it -- then you can raise those questions.
I would like to point out that all the books and videos you could possibly want on the subject; are available at the public library.
I am persuaded -- that the primary function of Philosophy -- is to provide employment to the teachers of philosophy.
I never really had a reason to take Philosophy till now. It never was a priority for anything I was doing.
I intentionally have refrained from reading anything about the topic before class.
I did go to the bookstore and check out the general titles of books there.
It seemed it might be prudent to see which direction this class wants to use to introduce the topic.
There was much in the title search that sort of made me conclude this may be a crusade in search
of a cause. But I am going to wait before finalizing any conclusions.
The concept of peer teaching (in light of my last semester class where peers didn't show up much of the time)
sort of intrigues me to see how this can possibly work.
I am curious from those who ever took this class (or had this for a major) - was it helpful? I remember the
time I took a class on Beowulf...the teacher insisted any civilized gentleman should have a passing
understanding of such things. It never came up once in my life.
I also took a basic course in music appreciation (never used it) ....art appreciation (never used it) and
Urban Studies (that also never helped me with a single decision at work.) I am sort of guessing this
might fall into that realm.
Then again - there were lots of books on those shelves that were new releases. And more than one had
hit the best seller list in the not too distant past so maybe there is something to this.
Often those who have been there before you can help you to understand (at the outset) things that might
be particularly useful to pay attention to (and things that are endured but not all that helpful in practical
application)....knowing there are lots of educated folks on this Forum - some general feedback seemed
like a good thing to invite.
BTW, thanks for the chuckle regarding the pizza.
von
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15 hours ago, Key said:
Yeah, philosophers get paid rather handsomely.
I am assuming that means they do not?
After that impassioned speech....I found myself imprinting that this is NOT something
society at large values. Then again, I have often run into people who DID take this in
college (as a general humanities class) that found it to be worthwhile. They majored in
something else - but would bring up the topic at the oddest times in business.
Did you take Philosophy?
von
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As I have shared, I returned to college last semester. Not so much that I need to pick up
another degree - more because I enjoy learning. The younger generation there have some
definite things to teach me (in addition to how to use my smart phone that does more things
than I imagined a phone would ever do.)
This semester - I decided to add a general 100 level philosophy course to my schedule. I have
NEVER had a single philosophy class in any of my formal schooling. I have not read much about
it. It is COMPLETELY new to me.
I sat through the VERY long (time wise as no one expects a FULL lecture day one) first
introductory overview. The professor is young, enthused and a very good speaker. The way they
will teach this course (peer review, group learning IN CLASS) etc. is very new to me and I enjoy
learning a new way to learn. All good.
.gif ":thumbu:")
At the end of the class - the professor made an impassioned argument FOR PHILOSOPHY.
Among the highlights were the results of lots of studies that indicate philosophy majors score
better on graduate entrance exams (which seemed only relevant to me if one wanted to take a
grad school entrance exam) (I got the major point that logic learned would be helpful but the ONLY
example was grad school which probably lacked appeal to many in the room)....also that
LONG AGO philosophy was the spring board of what we now know as OTHER sciences.
Philosophy lead to the evolution into mathematics, physics and such.
NOW TO THE QUESTION milling around in my brain.
According to this introductory lesson - apparently I am quite remiss in never having studied
philosophy till now.
Either we ALL should be learning it in kindergarten to have had "better" lives.
OR.....the world would be a better place by now if we had been trained to use these tools before we
entered the workforce. OR......
Philosophers really irk the rest of the world
and don't produce much that we need as all of the philosophers in
history didn't feed or raise funds for much of anything (I gleaned that due to the vibrant defense of an attack
never made by anyone in class so it must be residual defensiveness from years of being attacked by others
accusing philosophy majors of not contributing anything but ideas.
)
So......should we start teaching philosophy in grade school? Would we be a better world if everyone
used these thinking tools in society? I have no clue - that is why I am taking the class.
von
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My ignorance is as boundless as my curiosity apparently.
In a discussion with 12-year old boy from the neighborhood - he stumped me.
He was admiring a sunset photo I snapped years ago. I had it enlarged... the colors just happen to be particularly stunning that night. The photo was propped up against the wall minding its own business
The kid looked at it and said....”Is this a sunrise or a sunset?” I clarified it was a sunset. Then he asked, “ how can you tell the difference?”
Is there a way to tell the difference? I have seen some pretty cool sunrises as well. Are sunsets inherently more colorful? I have no idea? Are there unique differences between the images of a sunrise and a sunset?
Kids are interesting humans and often think in ways that allow me to learn
von
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3 hours ago, Dan56 said:
I don't think so... When my kids were little, they'd color us pictures and we'd tell them the pictures were good and tape them on the refrigerator. The truth, the pictures were horrible, but for the sake of their self-esteem and to acknowledge their effort, we told a white lie. Likewise, If a wife thinks she looks good in some new cloths and proudly ask; "How do I look in this outfit?", we all know there is just one correct answer to that question, the truth be damned.
I guess that sometimes its just easier to believe a lie. As Jack Nicholson said; "You can't handle the truth". Jesus said, "I am the Truth", and they crucified him.. Perhaps we don't value honesty in every situation? The truth is not always convenient and can interfere with how we want to perceive things.. I doubt that an honest politician could ever get elected.. We often choose to believe what we want to hear, true or not. Human emotions sometimes over-ride logic, we hope something is true even when we know deep down that it isn't.. Kind of like someone telling you, "Buy a lottery ticket and become a multi-millionaire", then we blow our money on unrealistic hope. We've all been gullible since day one; "The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!" We all want the truth, but often find a lie more preferable.
Thanks Dan56..... much in this provides good food for thought.
von
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7 hours ago, Dan56 said:
I think there's a big difference between a white lie and one that's detrimental to others. A white lie, fib, or exaggeration is usually harmless, but a lie to intentionally mislead or con someone else is never okay. I often exaggerate to make a point, or I'll say something that's not true to spare someone's feelings. A bad lie is to deliberately mislead someone to get what you want, like when a car salesman tells you a car runs great when he knows it has problems, or a politician says he's for repealing and replacing Obama Care and then votes against doing so.
Thanks for your input, Dan56.
Fibbing to protect someon’s feelings is problematic. I have no wisdom on how to regulate that one. Sometimes the best of intentions in that regard do not always play out as intended.
you raised an interesting paradox. If most people accept that politicians fudge the truth.... how do they get elected or better yet re-elected? I am sort of chucking at the paradox. We value honesty.... condemn those who do not speak truthfully..... but knowingly keep picking those type folks to be in charge....the salesperson type you describe. Or maybe my sense of irony is just out of whack this morning......humans are such a complex creature.....
von
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Is an omission the same as a lie?
Is exaggeration the same thing as lying?
Do most people carefully tell the truth most of the time?
Are we more likely to fudge for entertainment value, to impress....or to win when we lack proof?
What is the most common tip off some one is lying?
You can pick and choose the above starting thoughts.... with truth telling being in the news so often these days I am reflecting on that virtue.
As an employer, rarely did I have a day without an employee missing the truth (for various reasons) in conversations with me... over time I came to accept that FAR FROM everything I heard from staff was true.
I never know what to do when kids lie. With adults I usually let them continue as soon enough things unraveled.... or.... I wanted to see just where the scheme would headed. I want to know WHY they chose to lie. “Why” ....sometimes was an issue.
What guesstimate do you have on the % of honesty provided to you on average in a day? Everyone is honest? Probably 5% of what you hear today is not truthful?
If each of us has lied at least once in our adult life.... is it really highly prized character trait or a wink and nod game we all play?
When is it okay to lie? If you have a good reason.... is it still a sin?
thx
von
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I heard an interesting discussion today between a Unitarian (lifelong) and a muslim.
They were delving into mythology and were debating the origin of the concept of hell.
Not hades per se - but hell as a place for those who "sin against God(god).
At one point they sort of paused thinking it was a spin off of an Egyptian concept (as they muddled through it though they decided maybe not...it did not fit 100%)
Since this Forum has some pretty learned scholars....does any one know the origin of the concept of hell as a warehouse-punishment place for sinners?
(add on curiosity - is that strictly a Christian concept?)
thanks
von
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21 minutes ago, mererdog said:
I would not say that it failed to be kind. It simply wasnt an act of kindness. According to your story, you were motivated by amusement, not kindness. You were just having some fun, and your later reactions make it clear that you didn't really give much thought to how others would be affected. Kindness is simply not the word for that.
I view my actions as a kindness. Did then and still do....
It is perfectly acceptable not to agree with that or to view it differently.
von
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2 hours ago, mererdog said:
Yet you are not always kind. Putting the hat on the statue was not an act of kindness, for example.
I agree. Not every action is on a kindness meter - so no one can be kind in all actions.
I also agree to the extent - I am far from perfect. Not a secret I readily admit that. As a not perfect person...even when kindness is an issue ....I do not always choose it. Sometimes by design I do not choose it ....as on rare occasion ....it is not the wisest or most beneficial or effective option. Pesky reality rarities cause exceptions... so using an example of one of those moments would be helpful to making the point.
I completely disagree that putting the hat on the statue failed to be kind.
von
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1 hour ago, Brother Kaman said:
I am 70 yrs old. I have no fear of death. I don't care. But finally, maybe for the first time in ages, just maybe, only the strong will survive and thereby a stronger humanity will emerge.
First, congrats on making it to 70 years old with a sense of balance intact.
I concur no fear of death.... some flinching on my part... in hopes it is not prolonged and painful death for me....but the actual death part is not an issue. (Dying the process causes hesitation.... what does or doesn’t happen after the last breath is a non-issue
)
Just curious... does a stronger emergence of humanity mean physically stronger?
Thx
von
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If society breaks beyond recovery... if their is a nuclear war... if there is a world wide cyber attack ( you get to select your own most convincing end to life and order as we know it).... what then?
a)
b) i have no fear because I live righteously, with faith.... so I can face anything
c) i have no fear as I know whatever happens is beyond my control
d) I am investing in ammo & armament
e) I am investing in toilet paper and water
f) other (please elaborate)
g) pot is legal where I live... i’ll be
fine, dude
von
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On 12/30/2017 at 5:44 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
A religious code that makes people feel bad and guilty and unworthy is a mistake. IMO
So far that is my conclusion as well
von
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On 12/31/2017 at 3:33 AM, mererdog said:
I think that if we never feel guilty, there are lessons we will never learn.
I am not sure that is so.
I did not need to drink poison to know it is a bad idea to do so.
I like how it feels when i am kind to others so... I am selfishly choosing kindness. I am not kind because I feel bad otherwise - I am kind because it feels better.
Still sitting it out but that’s the current pause point
von
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On 12/31/2017 at 12:39 PM, Pastor Dave said:
BTW this post is just to keep me from being deleted for inactivity. I should be good for another quarter now. Thanks
THAT truly made me laugh out loud...it was unexpected... and thanks for that
von
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On 12/29/2017 at 5:39 PM, cuchulain said:
i dont believe in sin and think i am accountable for my actions, which for me is good reason to refrain from bad action as best i can.
This is a reasonable approach to my way of thinking.
von
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Karl you are/were wrong.
Karl you are bad/sinned.
Karl you were careless,thoughtless....
OR perhaps......
Karl I can see things turned out in an unexpected way ( then discuss the decision making it variables) verses the short hand conclusion Karl is flawed... more than likely the decision making though process is flawed or Karl’s inability to see his actions as others might see it... is in need of adjustment (Karl needs to appreciate he is not the center of the universe) ( he might have a teachable moment to grow up and mature)
If the person is “normal” in all cases.... the variables caused unintended outcomes and take always...the person is okay... the results not so much
The focus on YOU (person) rather than outcome/impact seems nothing more productive than lobbing snowballs it becomes a battle with even innocent bystanders taking hits...
KARL may have made a perfectly logical decision with variables no one could have known in making that decision. Karl may have been 100 % right...but the outcome was just unexpected... being right is not always enough
Another track....Making mistakes is often how we learn....if this is normal... the process is neither good or bad. It is at times necessary.
Assigning it to a negative blame with ensuing guilt..... seems counter productive, maybe.
Understanding the situation with less judgement upon the person and more thought in how to avoid repeating the same trajectory or the same rut... would yield better outcomes maybe
Karl things ended badly this time. What did you learn from it.....might more useful than Karl you are a dunderhead.
How do we all learn from Karl..... while Karl is also learning ?
Blame ( our centuries old approach) does not seem to be benefiting Karl (or mankind) too much to be .....or do better..
i am am trying to work through a swirl of thoughts... sometimes input from others helps to hone the thinking....
thc
von
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6 hours ago, Dan56 said:
The self that made the choice is to blame..
I am not sure that is true. That thinking started the knot I am trying to untie... thx for joining me on the launch pad
von
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22 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
I don't know how to respond to your aphorism. What's the question?
I am not sure.... it is more a developing series of thoughts..... I am trying to collect into more concise (less free form) shape
von
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On 12/29/2017 at 4:36 AM, mererdog said:
I'm confident that the choice did not make itself.
Interesting analysts
Thank you
von
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The self is not to blame....
.....the choice is to blame ?
von
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On 12/14/2017 at 5:47 AM, VonNoble said:
I am considering leaving the statue out there on the wall, in full view AFTER the holidays.
If the statue is offensive. It ought not be. At least it ought not be in this country.
von
I replaced the original statue in question as it was selected strictly on the basis of hat size. Not the best reason beyond seasonal expediency.
So today we took down the small plainer than plain ....old and worn cement statue and replaced it with a very serene and elegant Buddha statue we have owned for years.
It is a much classier version ...artful....and much higher quality of materials and craftsmanship.
So ends that life lesson. It is there to stay.
von
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On 12/17/2017 at 11:58 AM, cuchulain said:
I suppose if pushed, I would have to say time itself. At the end(operatively speaking) of the year, so many people ask "what's your resolution this year?" or, "What did you accomplish this year" or some variable...that it seems almost inevitable that I begin thinking about time itself. Days gone by revisit for pleasant dreams, or nightmares. Days of now hold a sense of stability, a place in time where I can stop and say to myself that I need to take a breath and think things through. Times to come offer unknown quantities of adventure, whether for good or ill, and eventual surcease altogether from the pains of life as well as the pleasures.
Seems you certainly .... in that pause....included ain that wise respite ... that reflection a reverence of some fashion
Good for you -so should we all
thx
von
Wisdom Lovers United (or untied)
in Philosophy & Theory
Posted
Thank you.... I will be attentive whoever I finally learn about Descartes.
von