damnthing

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  2. Prayer for every day

    in Good Wishes, Gratitude, Blessings and Prayers

    Posted

    On 12/13/2021 at 4:16 AM, May said:

    I pray for every person in the world. You can also join my prayer. And may the Creator hear our prayers. My God. I thank you for this day. Thank you for everything that surrounds me. I know you can hear me. You are the creator and I am glad that you created me. Guide me on the right path. Give me the strength to walk this path.

    P r e y

    Unintentional as it may have been, 'prey' is something I would very closely connect with some very popular religious denominations and with even more members of those denomination.

    Happy Yule

    Happy Dies Natalis Solis Invicti

    Happy Saturnalia

    Praise be the great and almighty FSM RaMen

    Happy New Year, be well and healthy

  3. Apa-theism: Not caring whether or not God exists

    in Freethought, Secularism, No Religion

    Posted

    On 10/15/2021 at 4:56 PM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

     

    I see that you are still averse to making distinctions.  There are many things in life that are worthy of great passion.  God is not one of them.  

     

    Apatheism is for people who are tired of silly and useless arguments about God's existence.  

     

    A God that cannot be demonstrated to exist is not worth arguing about.  Even if that God actually exists.  No more arguing about faith or belief.  No more arguing about knowledge.  It doesn't matter.

     

    This is NOT "void of substance".  It is an awakening.

     

    😃

    It takes no energy to be an atheist whereas it takes a LOT of energy to not be an atheist. One has to decide if there's a god, which god to worship and appease, how much worship is necessary to keep the angry god satisfied. An insecure, needy, prone to violent rage and killing god takes a lot of energy to soothe and keep soothed. Yet people choose to devote so much of their time and life basically paying attention to something that is nonexistent and a subject of delusional episodes and can only, really only be approached through a rock solid state of cognitive dissonance.

     

    Yeah, way less work...no work in fact, to be an atheist. An apatheist is for someone who still feels like they want to leave the door open and are just to....well, apathetic to just slam the door shut and move on with their life.

  4. Conservative Atheists

    in Philosophy & Theory

    Posted

    9 hours ago, Davidbillaa said:

    It’s not simply about who you’re most likely to like, but also on who you’re most likely to be liked by.
    howtosguru It all comes down to matching people who are highly likely to get along. Over time, we’ve learned who you like, who you comment on, and so on.

    It sounds like you're just spamming the site

  5. God is not a Good Theory (Sean Carroll)

    in Science, Technology & Innovation

    Posted

    15 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

     

     

    I followed your link.  This blend of Scripture, Kabbalah, Tarot, gematria and physics is not proof of anything.  Alright.  You believe.  I don't argue with what people believe.  It is not in any way objective proof for God's existence.  Something which you did not define.  In any event, this esoteric soup is not evidence.

     

    :mellow:

    ϱod people are silly

  12. Agnostic Theist

    in Freethought, Secularism, No Religion

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

     

     

    :lol:     

     

    Thank you.  I was not always the class act that I am now.  As they say in the old country -- "Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement."

     

    While I'm waxing philosophic, I have a thought for you, that a Satanic Humanist might enjoy.  "Be grateful for your enemies.  They will show you truths about yourself, that your friends never would."

     

    :lol:

     

     

    Some of the friends I have...might as well be my enemies instead

  13. Agnostic Theist

    in Freethought, Secularism, No Religion

    Posted

    11 hours ago, Cornelius said:

    So if someone wears a cross they should put it inside their shirt? How about a star of david? How about a baphomet? or just a regular necklace? I thought it was appropriate to wear necklaces outside of the shirt and not hidden away? Or is this just your special rule for religious pendants? Is it only the cross? what about a wiccan necklace?

     

    I'm just genuinely confused by what you are getting at here.

    "So if someone wears a cross they should put it inside their shirt? How about a star of david? "

    Did not say or suggest that...at all

    "I thought it was appropriate to wear necklaces outside of the shirt and not hidden away?"

    It's neither appropriate nor inappropriate, wearing a cross, any religious symbol, was not my point.

    "Or is this just your special rule for religious pendants?"

    Intentional or not this is what came across as 'attitude'. In any case perhaps go back an read the conversations leading up to my comments, it's about context.

    "Is it only the cross?

    It is indeed, in this particular case. It's a bout a person who is shilling his product (which, while another discussion altogether, is perfectly acceptable), but wearing his cross as he does on his tv ads is done for one reason only, to signify HIS religious position. Note any recent pictures of him in Washington or elsewhere, not a sign of the cross (pun intended). His use of the cross was a signal, it was indeed a prop, a way to let people know where he stands on major issues in the hopes that they will 'support' him by buying his product. If you have read anything about him you'll know that his business practices defy his supposed x tian principles.

     

    As this is the first time 'we' have chatted I'll chalk up both our comments as simple not being able to read the other's intent clearly due to unfamiliarity and chat-room sound deadening.

     

    And Jonathan's take was dead accurate of my intent and probably much more clearly stated than I could/would have. But then he's more practiced in the art of both philosophy and nuance. I tend to be more direct, think sledge hammer whether necessary or not.

  14. Agnostic Theist

    in Freethought, Secularism, No Religion

    Posted

    40 minutes ago, Cornelius said:

    So if someone wears a cross they should put it inside their shirt? How about a star of david? How about a baphomet? or just a regular necklace? I thought it was appropriate to wear necklaces outside of the shirt and not hidden away? Or is this just your special rule for religious pendants? Is it only the cross? what about a wiccan necklace?

     

    I'm just genuinely confused by what you are getting at here.

    Come at the question without the attitude and I'll be glad to clairify

  15. Agnostic Theist

    in Freethought, Secularism, No Religion

    Posted

    29 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

     

     

    Not always.  A lot of people, who are not religious in anyway, will wear a cross.  Some see it as a fashion accessory.  For instance -- Madonna.  Some wear it as a "good luck" thing.  Gang people sometimes wear the cross, to show their affiliation -- along with seemingly religious tattoos.  The cross also seems to be a fashion statement in modern, Atheist Japan.   It's a strange world.  So many wear the cross for nonreligious reasons.  I can't pretend any of it makes sense to me.

     

    Of course, there are ostensibly religious people, who also wear the cross.  Some really huge crosses.  The kind that we can refer to as BFC.  I also don't get that mentality.  

     

    I also have some friends, who are sincerely religious, who wear the cross because it is deeply meaningful to them.  There are some people like that.

     

    As you noted, there are all the pricks, who engage in virtue signaling.

     

    :rolleyes:

     

     

    Yes but...I'm not talking about someone who wears a cross on a chain that maybe visible depending upon what the wearer is wearing, nor am I talking about nuns or priests or the like who wear a cross outside of their clothing as part of their uniform. Not even talking about a person who, as a result of some physical maneuvering has flipped their cross onto the outside of their shirt,etc. What I am talking about is someone who buttons his shirt up to to the top button with the cross intentionally 'isolated' from accidentally NOT being seen.

     

    I get the yarmulke, it's part of a person's daily dress and will be visible, not to show off but because of their religious requirements. Wearing that cross outside of the shirt intentionally is no less than praying on the street, matthew 6:5

  16. Agnostic Theist

    in Freethought, Secularism, No Religion

    Posted

    The first time I saw a tv add for a certain pillow company I immediately knew the guy was a cryster. How? Because he had his shirt buttoned up to the top button but was wearing his plus sign on a chain outside his shirt. Why? To specifically let people he was a cryster.

     

    There is/was absolutely no reason to announce that other than to just put it in people's faces. Turns out he (no surprise, really) is a uuge drumpf fan. And turns out (nice surprise) a number of companies will no longer carry his product because of his support for drumpf and the insurrection (and unsurprisingly) all of the conspiracy theories.

     

    So yeah, having to make one's religious belief know when unnecessary AND unasked, is virtue signalling to the nth degree and a stunning display of self-righteouness. But then...isn't that always the way...

  18. Agnostic Theist

    in Freethought, Secularism, No Religion

    Posted

    46 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

     

     

    I think I'm part of the problem that you're talking about.

     

    When ever you like, I'm ready for a nuanced discussion of the different ideas about the gods -- small G.

     

    I can also discuss Pantheism.  Yes.  They are very different ideas.

     

    When I argue with Dan -- or someone like him -- subtleties and nuance get lost.  When the person I'm arguing with is incapable of distinctions -- I can't make them.

     

    When I'm in such an argument and I try making distinctions -- I sound like a bloodless lawyer.

     

    I understand why the Pagans like you get disgusted and walk out.  It's the situation.  I really don't know what to do about it.  If I can persuade you to stick around, I think we can have some good talks.

     

    :bye:

    So why not move the discussion over to  -

    http://ulc.net/forum/forum/153-earthnature-based-indigenous-religions/

    where the conversation can be more broadly discussed while limiting it to poly/pan etc to the exclusion of monotheism. It would be an interesting discussion to follow along with (because I really have nothing to offer other to it)

  19. Agnostic Theist

    in Freethought, Secularism, No Religion

    Posted

    1 hour ago, LeopardBoy said:

     

    Because the definition itself only describes monotheism. Do you think it fits polytheism or pantheism?

     

    As for common definitions of words, ask a monotheist and a polytheist to define the word “God” sometime and see how far that gets.  It’s been my experience on this forum and in real life that most Western atheists agree with the monotheists’ definition of that word, even though the atheists reject the concept as believable. And it doesn’t even occur to them that others can define “God” in a completely different way. Because their society and upbringing has drilled into them this idea that the qualities of the monotheistic God of Abraham set the standard for the word itself.

     

    That’s why I don’t post here much. Because it’s two sides constantly arguing in the same language with each other while my own theological experience and worldview just doesn’t match. When it feels like the only activity on this forum is a battle over the believability of the God of Abraham, why should a polytheist even care to post anything?

    Insofar as I can see, a polytheist can present their viewpoint just as easily as a monotheist. I can not believe in many gods as easily as I can not believe in one god.

     

    Regardless of who defines what, in the end it's up to the person believing to define for themselves what it is they believe in.

     

    Maybe because in western society monotheism is more the 'norm'. But then there are a lot of hindus, my partner is hindu and from him, family and friends I've been exposed to some of their beliefs and traditions.

     

    They have an interesting cafeteria approach to polytheism; the ones I know typically have a shrine to a particular god and honor that one primarily. That's not to say others aren't honored throughout the year for certain times or events but that mostly (and these are all desi) it's one god that is relevant to them.

     

     

  23. Agnostic Theist

    in Freethought, Secularism, No Religion

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:

     

    That might be true, if religion were rational.  We both know better than that.

     

    There are means of alleged knowledge, by which one can "know" a god.  Really, any means of enhanced perception.  It need not be "revelation" as such.  There are various altered states and means to induce them.

     

    There is also the succubus.  There is more than one way to know a god.  Sometimes, in the Biblical sense of the word.

     

    The knowledg/gnosis, does not need to be authentic.  Only believed as such.

     

    I accept that irrationality is paramount in most religions. But agnostics are almost by definition rational since they believe only what is knowable, whereas any form of theism/deism is irrational as it supposes some kind of supernatural being/creator be it knowable or unknowable.

     

    I can only believe in that which is provable, or very nearly so. There is not full agreement that at the center of our, and many other galaxies a black hole, or that black holes even exist, but enough scientific evidence suggests that that is indeed the case. We know 'gravity' exists as it's provable, but it is not definable in that we're not sure how it works, only that it works.

     

    Thus The Satanic Temple, who exhorts members to accept and believe in the provable, in science and in natural laws. It's a perfect fit for any humanist. Save that it has as its center a concept that is anathema to x tian beliefs. Satan is a metaphor for knowledge, learning, exploration, curiosity; antithetical to the x tian religio-pathy that predominates and presupposes an adherent need not think for themselves, simply drink the Kool Aid and all will be fine...if not now then after you die (talk about making promises that can't be kept nor sued for making false promises).

  24. Agnostic Theist

    in Freethought, Secularism, No Religion

    Posted

    A contradiction.

     

    "The agnostic believes only what is knowable. He rejects revelation and the doctrine of the Trinity as “past human understanding.” He is neither theist, deist, nor atheist, as all these are past understanding."

     

    "A theist believes there is a God who made and governs all creation; but does not believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, nor in a divine revelation."

     

    As I read it one can be either one or the other but not both.