cuchulain

Throughout my life, I have encountered many various claims about things. I have discovered, in my own life at least, that I have a tendency to believe people. I know, gullibility. In later years I have strove to overcome that gullibility, and the only way I have found that works for me is to take everything everyone says with a grain of salt, even things that seem to be true and everyone accepts. After all, the world was flat at one point, until people decided it was round, right? I spent some time in jail, and I watched many a person preach the word as they saw it, and I watched many other people just fall to their knees and accept, no question, no debate, no let me think on it. Just acceptance. Eagerly so. I have seen it in other places as well. People hear an idea that they resonate with for whatever reason, and it just seems like reason flies out the window. That sounds so good, I think I will just believe it wholeheartedly, not because of evidence, but because it sounds like what I want to be the truth. So I thought I would ask, has anyone hear fallen for the idea because it sounded like what they wanted to be the truth, and do you have examples? When I was way younger, in grade school, the one that always stuck with me was that hummingbirds can't fly, according to the laws of physics. Well, that is a bit obvious, they DO fly, so clearly that is wrong. But it always stuck in the back of my head, and when I was that age I didn't have the internet to be able to fact check the statement. Naivety. Gullibility. I think it happens to a lot of people, especially when they are scared, or desperate to believe in something, anything really. What are your thoughts?

I forget the source, but "you shall judge a man by his foes as well as by his friends"...

the world is flat, right?????

Indeed, it seems to me like analytical thinking incorporates debate, and with the multitude of debates about the authenticity of the bible, the veracity of its claims, etc...well, it seems to me that those of faith get a mental work out whenever those of no faith debate with them, and vice versa. I think in that light, spirituality increases analytical thinking in some ways. Johnathan, as I said, I apologize. Had a bad day, and was taking things way too personally, sorry to say. I agree that the study is too vague. How exactly does a person measure another persons spirituality? Is it a Christian or Muslim or Druid doing the measuring, and if so are they biased by their own views? Of course its a biased study. I can't quite wrap around how one would go about making an unbiased study on this particular subject. And is there even a real connection? Kind of like saying I know a lot of people who eat spaghetti and then get in car accidents. The two aren't necessarily functions of each other, it could just be coincidence.

might be, pete, and maybe I owe apologies. Been in a bummer kind of mood today, and I think I let that reflect on how I took what they said. Sorry, everyone.

I use the term spirituality because I don't want to list every single possible belief, form of meditation, etc...but I don't want to leave anyone out. I thought that seemed fairly clear, but apparently I was mistaken. It is intended that the reader should see the term spirituality, and install their own personal form of belief etc in that location. Sorry if I was not specific enough for you Johnathan. I really thought the thinking people on this forum could read the question and decipher my meaning from what I wrote, without nitpicking, but apparently I was mistaken? I don't suppose the term "religion" is too vague as well? Which religion, which branch of that religion? Really? Brother Kaman, do you intend that to be insulting? It comes off as you saying I spout meaningless blather, and while I can appreciate that it might be meant as humorous, and so choose not to take offense, I thought I would ask. I do take issue with it being meaningless to try to state a question, and ask for an answer. I was always told that there are no stupid questions.

I think what it boils down to is asking the question, does stronger analytical thinking naturally lead a person away from religious or spiritual beliefs? I agree, there is no way that I can imagine to measure a persons beliefs, or how strong they are, and to compare them accurately with someone else's, but the general question can still be debated. Does logic naturally defy spirituality?

I can see how that would be insulting to you Songster. I guess that puts you in the two wrongs make a right crowd, then.

isn't calling someone's belief delusional baiting at best, and deliberately insulting at worst?

I do not hold my soul accountable to anyone, Songster

if god is all powerful and all knowing, and programmed man...then I hold him responsible for man's acts. Of course, I don't believe in that god, so....

I have let go of things, but not forgiven, simply because I was in a position to do absolutely nothing worthwhile about the issue at hand. Perhaps in most cases letting go is the same as forgiving, but I don't think the two are functions of each other, necessarily. Just a personal view, of course, and I may be wrong.

and more telling...the videos mean nothing. Yep, MGEATUS is back again hahahahaha.....

according to the bible, blasphemy against the holy spirit is unforgivable. Mathew 12:31

the Barddas, what a shame lol. In spirit, I believe that he gathered much information on the subject, but ruined his credibility with the forgery. I do own a copy, however, and do reference it occasionally, like you said with the caveat that it was a forgery but still written in the proper spirit.

I have heard a little bit about wicca, through studying druidism. For instance, that Gardner and Nichols were friends, and often borrowed each others materials so to speak. I never believed that either wicca or druidism could offer ancient resources, though both have made such claims at some time or another. Then, it must also be presented that there are so many variations of each doctrine, much like denominations of Christianity, that it is hard if not impossible to make an umbrella claim about either druids or wiccans. The course I studied through with druidism never claimed ancient descent, or an unbroken line to ancient times when druids were "authentic". Rather, they styled their teachings with what is known of Celtic culture of the times, and gave it some modern flavoring. After all, if nature adapts to its surroundings, why shouldn't a nature based religion? Anyways, I can see that you have put a lot of time and research and feeling into the right path for yourself, and wish you the best of luck on that path.

the bible is the most read, pan...but I am willing to bet that PER CAPITA, the bible readers who have committed evil in its name is a much higher percentage than any other book. That said, the book itself isn't evil, just the people who commit atrocities in its name.

equity in who's eyes? I may think a sandwich is the best thing in the world, and worth hundreds of dollars. If so, and someone offered me a sandwich in return for a diamond ring, I would feel I was getting a good deal. And also, there are circumstances, such as supply and demand. A man in the desert might give his most valued possession for a cup of water, while a man living by a pure spring would be much less likely to do so, don't you think Pan?

I intended to type Stormbringer...my bad

no pedals at this time, sad to say. Had to sell a lot of music equipment when the daughter was born and stuck in a hospital in saint Louis for 5 months. Just now getting some of it back. But, I used to use a wah pedal, that's all I have ever really played with. Some of my friends had effects pedals, and they were fun, just not something I ever invested in, but now that I have the idea I might explore a bit.

I don't think that too odd, Stormson. I think the oddity is that people ASSUME Satanism to be a certain way, without researching it. Like a lot of things, I suppose.

I think the only thing in life that is fair is death. We all die, and nobody messes that up.

the thoughts conveyed may not be right, perhaps they are downright evil. Yet it is ultimately the responsibility of the reader to understand that, and so laying any blame on the book for the actions of the reader is silly. I think that is ultimately what I am trying to convey. I could attend a satanic mass, in which they instruct me to go forth and slay as many people as possible. But in the end, it is still up to me to decide if that is the right course of action or not(purely hypothetical, btw). If I were to decide to listen and kill, then I would be the one responsible, not them, in my opinion.

So I had a friend in high school who played dungeons and dragons, right along side me a several other friends. Yep, I was and still am something of a nerd. Anyhow, after a couple of years playing, this friend started having rough times coping with his life, and it got to a point where he was institutionalized because he was really thinking he was his character. About the same time, the vampire killings happened around Murray, Kentucky. Some kids acted like vampires and killed some people, and the media and a lot of religious groups tended to blame it on the game "Vampire: the Masquerade". It even got to the point where book stores in Kentucky quit carrying RPG's for a time in response. My wife's mother, when I first started dating my wife, told my wife that I was evil because I played Dungeons and Dragons and that was Satanic. My grandfather used to sit outside of concerts, such as AC/DC, because that stood for antichrist devils children, and protest. That was his opinion, by the way, not mine. The theme in all this is this: I have noticed a lot of Christian outrage over some things that happened because people did something bad, what they would consider evil, after playing or reading roleplaying games. But I don't notice much outcry from the Christian community when it comes to doing evil things based on the bible. The bible has inspired more death and what Christians would call evil than any roleplaying game ever created, yet no outcry. Myself, I don't think it is the book, or movie, or videogame. I think it is the psychosis of the individual, or group of individuals, who engaged in the activity. My friend, he thought he was his character. That isn't the game making him crazy, that is the form of crazy he took. If roleplaying didn't exist, he would have thought he was a comic book character, or a movie character, or maybe even a bible character...it would have been something, because he couldn't cope at the time with his life and what was going on. The vampire killings would still have happened if the game didn't exist, it simply would have had another outlet. so my question, or topic, is: Books, games, music, religious writings...do you consider any of it truly evil enough to inspire evil acts in society? And even if it is, does that give the right of censorship? I guess I answered myself above, but in case it wasn't obvious, my opinion is no, it is the person, and they will channel their crazy into some outlet, regardless of if it is banned or not. And, no, censorship in my opinion is just wrong when the government gets involved. I mean, I am a parent, I censor what my kids watch in terms of violence and nudity, and how old they are at the time. But as far as organization and governments, I think censorship is always wrong on that front. Other opinions, disagree, agree?

I always disclose where I received my ordination, and sometimes there is resistance, mostly in the form of people who think its "just that online thing, right?" And I tell them, while technically I was ordained online, the ordination meets a need for me, and so I consider it perfectly legitimate. With my status of minister, truthfully, I practice my faith much as I always have, I simply have a certificate I can give to the county clerk when I officiate a wedding. As far as non-profits, I don't venture there. I haven't personally grown a large following, or even a small group of people, who believe the same as I do. That would be an interesting group though. My view of the ULC now is one of a shelter in the storm. My religious views are not largely tolerated in the area I live, good ole southern Illinois, where there is a giant cross about twenty miles from my house, and I have often considered that cross to be the spike on the belt buckle of the bible belt.(Cue dueling banjo music now). Definitely not the most progressive of areas, I have seen other pagans have their windows busted out, the burning crosses, the whole nine yards...the police don't bother doing anything about it, even with license plate numbers and accurate descriptions given. I personally have been wrongfully prosecuted? Well, I don't know if I should call it prosecution or what, a person made up a story about me strictly on the basis that I had a pagan bumper sticker, and later admitted to such. But the ULC is all inclusive, this is a forum that I can go, I can speak my piece, and usually have a grand ole debate, but not get threatened or worse. Shelter in the storm, for me.