cuchulain
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Posts posted by cuchulain
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People will believe any nonsense because they want it to be true or they fear it is true. The only counter to this principle is awareness that we are all susceptible to it and vigilance.
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Rambling doesn't transmit information well. Could you write more coherent strings? Then we can properly discuss our points
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I can debate freely. You have no power to stop my freedom of speech. I have not attacked you. Merely debated your perspective.
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11 minutes ago, RevBogovac said:
Wait... that's that same god that killed off an entire generation of first born children just to prove a point to a Pharaoh who didn't listen to his stepbrother...? Although he is supposed to be alknowing and almighty (even supposedly hardening that same Pharaoh's heart to that same message, sic!)... that god? And you expect him and his followers to be consistent and just? WoW...
No. I just want them to know that I see through the game and I don't buy it.
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Your freedom of religion shouldn't allow you to impact my freedom. If your God exists and he gave us all free will then who are you to deny me what your God gave?
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4 hours ago, Dan56 said:
How is it wasting ones life to believe in something beyond the here & now? The hope of something better and eternal gives life meaning & purpose, and this soul soothing peace and well being adds to the quality of life.
By learning, your really inferring that someone see things in the same light that you see them. Perhaps the shoe is on the other foot? The human error could be yours? I can't learn that your correct because I don't believe what you believe.
Faith has never been an argument. A person simply states why they believe as they do, its not a seductive trap, its just a reality beyond what you perceive to be real. Accepting that fact might ease your frustration.
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Stoics admit they are prone to human error the same as any other person. You are correct in your observations. I have a natural tendency to believe the best in people so I often find myself in this argument with Dan believing he is capable of learning. I admit I am in error and will attempt to steer clear in the future of this circular trap.
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5 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
You're arguing with Dan.
More to the point, you're arguing with Dan's beliefs.
Neither reason nor facts will prevail.
Your right. He argued that love really meant faith.
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5 hours ago, Dan56 said:
Its the gospel according to Luke, Mark, Matthew, & John....... Not Dan.
Why would there be any historical records of a peasant from Nazareth? There's no historical records outside of the Koran about Mohammad, or for that matter, not much about William Shakespeare either. There were at list 70 apostles sent out who testified about Christ, all of Rome eventually accepted his story as gospel. I doubt an imaginary figure could have changed the world.
But nothing would convince a person who chooses not to believe, they will deny it all happened no matter the documentation. I simply choose to roll with it and accept by faith that its true. Note that there's no evidence of anyone from the time saying it wasn't true, no disciple who walked with Christ said, "I didn't see any miracles". No one said, "He has not risen from his tomb, here's his body over here". It should be easy to prove an untruth, but no one from that time period did because they couldn't.
Alright. If it's easy to prove an untruth...prove to me that there aren't little green men on the moon who are really good at hiding.
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Revelation would be a miracle. This is after the time of Christ. You have previously said there have been no miracles after the time of Christ. Also wouldn't the compilation of the modern Bible be a revelation as well? Well after the time of Christ?
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10 hours ago, Dan56 said:
By your logic, its also safe to presume that Lincoln did not write the Gettysburg address either... You can't trust any historical records. There's no solid evidence that Cleopatra ever existed or that Pontius Pilate ever ordered anyone to be executed, etc. The 4 witnesses who recorded the crucifixion were persecuted or killed for their testimony, but none reneged on what they recorded. The fact is, people who lie are generally not willing to die in order to maintain a falsehood. That in itself gives credibility to the truth.
No. I simply have a higher standard for proof than 'it was written down long ago after the facr as prophecy, so it must have been true'.
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8 hours ago, Dan56 said:
5 people mentioned it. King David (Psalms 22:18), Matthew 27:35, Mark 15:24, Luke 23:34, John 19:24... That's multiple sources... The 4 gospels were written between 40 and 70 AD.
My Caesar comparison was not diversionary, its very relevant in proving ancient history. For example; Very little hard evidence about Cleopatra exists. Most of what know about her today is based on a biography written by Plutarch 200 years after her death. Early accounts of her life were given the anti-Cleopatra, pro-Roman slant promoted by Octavian. So with regards to the details of the crucifixion, I doubt that 500 written reports would meet with your satisfaction? It boils down to whether a person chooses to believe in the accuracy of what people of any time period recorded. Would you believe that Lincoln delivered the Gettysburg Address if there were no pictures? Did Lincoln write it or was it the work of Edward Everett?
So...you have the originals of the gospels available as proof of when they were written? Astonishing. See, i know you think they were written in contemporary timing to christ. But you take that on faith and dress it as fact. You can argue as you wish about the gospels, but there isnt evidence that they were written by who they claim, let alone when. So no, you dont have multiple witnesses.
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7 hours ago, Dan56 said:
For one, more than one person recorded the same thing. Can you prove that the story of Julius Caesar being stabbed to death by the senate was accurately reported? I personally trust the source, but nearly every historical event is accepted by faith. We really cant even trust that anything on CNN is accurately reported.
How many people reported it? What is your source? When were these reports written? That about caesar is diversionary. I dont believe you can prove the sources youve stated exist and are authentic.
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Prove it was accurately reported.
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So then some guys wrote down that particular piece as a fulfillment of prophecy that they had previously studied? Yeah that's called confirmation bias. They wrote in support of a specific agenda. But if you have evidence of someone without any agenda confirming this as history then we'll talk.
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I've noticed when you cite prophecy you never quote word for word. Is that because it's so easy to see it's not as specific as you seem to believe?
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I wasn't specifically saying religious people. I meant people in general are stupid. Obviously there are exceptions, but few and far between. Creating something of worth doesn't negate a persons stupidity. People will believe all sorts of nonsense even and maybe especially if they have an education. I'm not exempt from this either. I've discovered there are things I "know" that are false after all. So what do I know that is false that I have not discovered?
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People are stupid. Their heads are full of tidbits facts and truths most of which are false, but they want to believe for whatever reason so they will use confirmation bias to sort through the supposed evidence and continue to hold false beliefs. Nobody is immune and all you can do is try to observe it in yourself and correct it as you go.
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Ah yes. Now since you have no actual facts to back up your point of view there must be a deficiency in us making it so we won't believe your obvious evidence. It's everyone else isn't it dan
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7 hours ago, Dan56 said:
She knew the ice cream was in the refrigerator, but had the self-discipline not to indulge without permission. Obedience to God works the same way.
There's a spiritual factor that ought to influence our choices too. There is a 'chance' because decisions can go either way. I'm sure Abraham didn't want to sacrifice Isaac, but he was willing because God commanded it to test his faith. I'm sure Jesus was hungry when he fasted in the wilderness for 40 days, but he overcame his environmental and biological needs and brought them under subjection to his spirit. That's what separates us from the animals. i.e; I want this, but God says "no', so I will obey my God and not be a slave to sin. Sometimes we deny ourselves in order to please our God.
The analogy holds. Because if God created everything he also created this spiritual factor you speak of and it operates on rules he created and he knows how you will choose in advance. Liking or not liking a choice you don't have is irrelevant to freewill.
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7 hours ago, Dan56 said:
If I asked my kid if she wanted some ice cream, I know that she would answer that question with a resounding "yes".. The fact that I know what her response would be, in no way negates her choice. It isn't a matter of predestination, God knowing how we will respond doesn't equate to God forcing or predetermining our choices. Its like asking an alcoholic if they'd like a drink, the nature and character of a drunk makes their response to the offer very predictable.
It is with God. Choice is determined by environmental factors and biology. God created all the factors involved and set up how they work. It's more like playing a game of cards where he designed the rules the cards and determined who gets what cards in advance. There is no chance involved. So there can only be very specific responses.
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On 7/17/2020 at 2:19 AM, Dan56 said:
I'm no Physicist, I simply believe God created time for us, and because of us. As to your hypotheses, the book analogy applies to God, but I don't think the latter chapters of a book are set in stone since God being omnipotent as well as omniscient, has the capability of changing what may have been.
This is where you said God can change what may have been.
Remember now? It allows you to change the rules to suit your view.
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4 hours ago, Dan56 said:
I'm no Physicist, I simply believe God created time for us, and because of us. As to your hypotheses, the book analogy applies to God, but I don't think the latter chapters of a book are set in stone since God being omnipotent as well as omniscient, has the capability of changing what may have been.
So history literally changes to suit your beliefs...not egocentric at all. Good luck with that b.s.
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If it was freewill they are guilty. But human decision is based entirely on factors that are allegedly in control of a deity. Thus the cards can only read what he printed on them.
The Bible is a Parable in itself
in Philosophy & Theory
Posted
God being all powerful and knowing means he set the circumstances up in the first place for there to be no solution.