Brother Kaman
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Posts posted by Brother Kaman
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What one insists upon in life is often overturned by future generations. That is how heros and g/God's are made.
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Buddhist started out without a g/God. Now they come in different denominations.
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The forum is here for honest conversation and discussion of varied opinions and outlooks in order for us to gain understanding of each other and our varied beliefs or lack of belief. If one does not think the discussions are honest, one must question why they are taking part.
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This would be a great discussion if we had an alien or two to join in. In lieu of that, perhaps we can ask ourselves the question as originally asked. I don't know if religion has any value to any one (or not) because I can only speak for myself. I do not know if I could have formed a moral compass without the influence of religion because religion played a large roll in the society I was born into and raised. Whether or not I accepted or rejected religion in my own life does not mean it has had no influence.
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4 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
It depends on the historic model. Americans have a tradition of going to India, to find a guru. (It was popular when the Beatles did it.) Or to South America to find a shaman. Or to Tibet, to find a lama. High tech people, sometimes get romantic notions of "finding themselves" -- and discovering spirituality in low tech places.
Missionary traffic does flow in both directions. We can see this by the popularity of Yoga in the West. Buddhism is very much in vogue. The great Zen masters are no longer in Japan. They're in Colorado.
But would alien missionaries care? What if they were all fundamentalists and not Jehova's Witnesses after all?
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12 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
Do you think that I'm being unfair? Or unreasonable? I have a mistrust of missionaries, which I think is justified.
One of the historic examples that comes to mind, is the Jesuit invasion of Japan.
Islamic missionaries, have been known to employ more drastic means.
Buddhist missionaries, tend to actual persuasion. This is not something that we can count on.
I am sorry, Jonathan. I just thought to illustrate that alien "Christians missionaries" would not have any problems dealing with Earth's other religions.
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2 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
Yes. There are plenty of such stories. If our hypothetical aliens had their own version of these stories, it wouldn't mean anything. Unless it were hyper specific. Their god getting nailed to something, for remission of sins, for all entities everywhere.
Even then, I would suspect that they had done research on us -- and had prepared a story that Christians would be comfortable with. Let's face it. Missionaries lie. They tell the audience what the audience wants to hear.
Not that this would help them with Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Animists, Pantheists, Pagans, etc.
Set your phaser to ethnic cleanse, brother Gort.
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10 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
Seriously? You think the aliens would be descended from Adam and Eve? That is the only way they would need redemption from Original Sin. A hard sell, if they aren't Human.
Suppose their religion does offer a way, to come into fellowship with God. Their God. Not yours. Would you sign up?
Are you ready to tell alien missionaries, that they need to be saved by Christ?
Now G/god could have created Gort & Klakpu as the original sinners on their planet but it would be hard to figure how Jesus could come into the story for them to be Christians.
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4 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
If they can cross Interstella space, they have tech. Everything else is speculation.
Give them a few years and they will all be Jehova's Witnesses. What we must be concerned with is if they really know we are home and just not answering the door.
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Why should one believe that alien life is more advanced than we are? Perhaps they are all as screwed up as we are and kill each other off before any true potential can be realized.
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I am glad for your return.
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Well said, Kingfisher.
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16 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
Yes. Just so.
I lack sainthood.
I guess one Saint John is enough in any case. 😀
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4 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
You nailed it. Atheism is that simple. Due to inadequate evidence, belief in God is not justified. Pending further information.
Nothing to do with any other issue. Not a system of thought, ethics, philosophy or anything else. Not a source of alternative answers.
There are some standard arguing points, that believers insist on bringing up.
"If there's no God, where did we come from?" I refuse to argue about evolution theory. The simple answer is -- I don't know.
"If there's no God, where did everything come from?" I refuse to argue Cosmology. The simple answer is -- I don't know.
While I am inclined to go along with mainstream science in these matters; they have nothing to do with Atheism.
As to Dan's understanding: I am convinced that he is incapable of understanding any point of view, except his own -- in any area. To Dan, a person is either all right, or all wrong. Since God speaks through him, he is all right. That leaves me to be all wrong. That means his only answer, is to correct my error. We have been arguing for years. I'm tired of taking his crap -- and I don't have to. In particular, I'm tired of his pronouncements that I'm angry. Or that I hate God. For an Atheist, hating God is like being upset over Dracula. There are a lot of fictional characters that I don't like. None of it involves my hating them.
Though the horse be dead and drawing flies, still we cannot resist our turn at bat.
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4 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
Not really. In my opinion, there's much worse in Scripture. There is also worse throughout history.
Sure it's bad. Not the worst.
So what is the purpose of this thread? Just to tell us it could be worse? I don't get it.
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Thank you. May your days be merry and bright.
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1 hour ago, cuchulain said:
You repeat often that you've provided plausible proof, but thats dishonest. You've repeatedly deflected when pressed for that proof and give nothing but personal attacks. A great candidate for ignore, as this useless exchange proves.
But it has not been a "useless exchange." I have learned much about you and Songster.
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I will hold you and your wife close in my thoughts and meditations, Songster.
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I look forward to reading your posts.
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I will continue to hold Luis and his family close in my thoughts and meditations.
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3 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
This thread has drifted without resolution.
Does anybody on this board - think that an Atheist needs to justify non-belief?
I say -- "No."
I do not think anyone should have to justify their belief outside a court of law and then it would only be because the law required it (voice from G/god told me it was my calling to kill unbelievers or something similar). As far as having to justify a non belief? Do I have to justify why I don't believe something? Where would that end? I dont believe I like liver, mac and cheese or rocky mountain oysters. Do I have to justify that? Where would it end? There are many, many things I don't believe. I would not waste my time trying to justify any of them.
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3 hours ago, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
In a long past thread, when the discussion was about Agnosticism -- meredog has been purist about what is knowable. I'm not seeing that here. Possibly I'm simply not finding it. I suspect that your reacting to something old that isn't here now.
There have been other threads, where people argued that external reality is subjective. I don't see that happening here. Still, sometimes the past echoes. In this instance, I think you're getting stuck on past arguments, instead of current stuff.
ALL of reality is subjective but that, indeed, is a whole nut her thread.
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On 5/9/2018 at 4:27 AM, Jonathan H. B. Lobl said:
I forgot a few.
Because people who claim to hold Scripture inerrant, have no problem ignoring the commands of Jesus. They do this, because it is more important to them to be cultural bullies -- than to obey God.
A. To pray in secret instead of in public.
B. Forced public prayer at government functions
C. Forced public prayer at sporting events
D. "In God we trust" on all the money.
E. "Under God" in The Pledge.
F. Forcing Nativity scenes onto Public Land.
G. Forcing Creationism into Science Classes in Public School.
H. Fighting gay rights in every possible venue.
I. Forcing Ten Commandment monuments in front of government courthouses.
I'm sure I forgot a few more.
I do despise bullies. "By their fruits you will know them."
Do not feel so all alone, everybody must get stoned.
Enthropy
in Science, Technology & Innovation
Posted
I can see no where on the forum for members to say good by. They all just seem to fade away never to be heard from again. Enthro'py has caught up with me at an alarming rate and I will not be participating here again. Good by to all my friends. This
S is still my church I just will no longer attend services.