Brother Michael Sky
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Posts posted by Brother Michael Sky
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ar0r02FZng
uh, happy Birthday?..... an Angel to sing for Jesus....
1:45 - 4:00 is her performance...
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its actually a very energetic time.
agreed..... has me all discombobulated .... this Holiday season feels " different " somehow - but that could just be my perception... the energies I experience are as strong as usual - but folks reactions to it are not... people seem reserved to my eyes... and they are keeping their energies tightly about them.... It is shaping up to be an unusual Holiday season...
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I cant wait, this is serendipitous.... I've been reading the Mahabharata...
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what the heck is the Frost Children?
it's not familiar if you haven't read "The Bouquet"
lol...sorry, I didn't realize that piece of what i WAS going to say wasn't erased... it was longwinded, and detracted from enjoying what you posted..
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- I think I need a tissue.... and a 
maybe a .gif)
Awesome.... and somehow familiar...
The Frost Children?
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~ No body's home
Empty scattered windows
Scarred and brittle doors
Hollow weeping shadows
Fragile torn-up floors
Corners holding darkness
Echoes left behind
Walls that keep in sadness
So we are not reminded
of
Empty scattered choices
Scarred and brittle goals
Hollow weeping voices
Fragile torn-up souls
... Any assistance would be much appreciated!
Don't intend to annoy! Just a thought...
I see levels of meaning in your words Qryos, Yet it feels as if there is something left unsaid. I like that, and I think your effort is greater for that trait... Well done ... the break in meter in at the end of the second stanza was an honest choice, we were warned of it's presence in the first, but it still made me stop and begin again... I feel that which you project - and that speaks of success in your intention... again, well done...
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This guy.
.gif)
in the spirit of Truth, here's me :
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People tell me I look like that guy who was always getting into trouble years ago, the one with the really long hair who was soooo tall........ I don't tell them I cut my hair...
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thank you for posting this SalemWitchChild...
I go out to counsel so many people who have pets that are obviously in need of a great amount of nurturing... sometimes it hurts so bad to see the condition of their animals, that it is very hard to maintain my usual level of sympathy... to see what some folks do to the animals who Love and Respect them so greatly, causes a rage in me that I have struggled to leave behind... How terrible would their life seem were they chained, with three feet of chain, to the bumper of a car throughout the rain, and snow, and blazing heat.... with kibble thrown in the dirt around them.... and they sit in their snug houses - stuffing cheetos in their faces, loudly complaining how God has not supplied a big screen TV.... after all, they ask for so little.....
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I feel the key is praying within the stream of consciousness that is God's will. Going against the stream no matter what one's level of faith makes it tough!
exactly my opinion as well... I do not pray with a desired result in mind.... I pray that the difficulty experienced by the individual will be clarified, and that their Highest and Best good will be accomplished - and yet I do not imagine that I have any firm grasp of what that may be... I am simply joining that soul in a desire for clarity and understanding....
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my prayers and energy healing will be added to those of the others.
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Thanks Carl !!
and Happy Thanksgiving from me as well !!
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ARE YOU HAPPY?
ARE YOU CONTENT?
Just curious whether people consider themselves to be happy, sad, or both, depending on what day you ask them.. I am personally happy, but seldom content. I am content in what I believe, but not usually satisfied in where I'm at in life. I'm not sure its a good thing to be content, because it might mean that you want for nothing better and an attitude like that might bring all progress & growth in life to a screeching halt? Anyhow, if your happy, how did you get there?
Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be. ~Abraham Lincoln
Happiness? That's nothing more than health and a poor memory. ~Albert Schweitzer
As people spin faster and faster in the pursuit of personal happiness, they become exhausted in the futile effort of chasing themselves.
The happiness of most people is not ruined by great catastrophes or fatal errors, but by the repetition of slowly destructive little things.
Unhappiness is not knowing what we want and killing ourselves to get it.
Three grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love, and something to hope for.
You need to learn to be happy by nature, because you'll seldom have the chance to be happy by circumstance.
I would say that I am satisfied... sometimes I am Happy, sometimes not nearly so... things are not perfect in my life, I even have some things that distress me greatly at times, but it does not detract from my overall satisfaction with where my life is at right now.
I am satisfied because I know things could be much worse...
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I think your confusing the Byzantine manuscripts with the Alexandrian translations. Constantine was dead and had no influence over the majority text (Textus Receptus). Gnostic corruption occurred before the council at Nicea, this was a separate issue and it was what Irenaeus battled against long before Eusebius compiled the NT from the minority text for Constantine.
ummm, wasn't it Origin who created the Hexapla? Which contained all the previous versions in one? what could be clearer than that? how could that be considered misleading in any way?
you're jumping all over here dan....
It was Marcion who prompted the Early Chruch to specify their authoritative sources... And Montanus as well... they had enough followers to be trouble... and they were definitely gnostic... It was almost the 200's before the church started talking about " official scripture"
and it was Irenaeus who decided " for since there are four zones to the world in which we live, and four principal winds... it is fitting that the church should have four pillars." making Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John the Gospel, because in his view, the gospels symbolized in the four cherubim in Ezekial 1:5-10 and Revelation 4:7. Each Face represented both an aspect of Jesus' work and a characteristic of a particular gospel...
The argument involving Origin and Clement and others was allegorical interpretation of the Gospels... The Damage was done when they went after Valentinus and produced the Apostle's Creed... and Irenaeus went crazy..
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Don't worry, I've never been offended by anyone in my life.... I don't know specifically what you disagreed with, but it sounds like you believe the church fathers were faithful in delivering uncorrupted scripture. I personally disagree, and am convinced that some 3rd century church fathers intentionally misconstrued the manuscripts. They were Clement of Alexandria, Origen and Eusebius. Constantine commissioned Eusebius to prepare 50 copies of the bible, these are the main source for the corruptions we see today, they were the result of the work of Origen and Eusebius. Later, Westcott and Hort made some 5000 changes to the “Revised Greek Text” of 1881, I cited some of those changes in an earlier post. All the changes were based on the Alexandrian manuscripts (Vaticanus and Sinaiticus), basically a Vatican manuscript. It may be funny, but it is also a historical truth, I've already done extensive research on it.
what I thought was funny, was your stated belief that gnosticism was a " a religious/philosophical movement " which " corrupted " Early Christianity ", and your stated belief that the " more reputable Byzantine scribes " were somehow more faithful in reproducing the message of the Text....
History does not support either view... and it obviously comes from a place of bias....
You are, of course, referring to the infamous council of Nicea.... which had several pointed goals :
1. Settle the vexing problem of the Divinity of Jesus - which they did by introducing The Doctrine of the Trinity...
2. Figure out the Problems they were having involving the Date for Easter...
3. Smack down the rebellious Pope, who disagreed mightily with emperor Constantine...
and of course several more mundane matters......
and it is even funnier considering Eusebius was the author of one " Preparation for the Gospel " which was an argument why Jewish and Christian belief were superior to Pagan myth and Philosophy... all the while Christians were gathering Pagan holidays and believers like the pied piper....
Athanasius was there as well...the first to use the term " canon " to describe the " official sanction " of the contents of the Bible... A man who was exiled five times during his career.... exiled from ALEXANDRIA..... which had the biggest Library of the ancient world.... he didn't even agree with his buddy Eusebius on a regular basis.....
It seems ridiculous to me, that folks will make judgments that support their view of things directly in the face of proof otherwise...
There was only one thing the byzantine scribes could be trusted to do : EXACTLY what they needed to do to make their emperor happy... and Constantine had POLITICAL motivations - he used the religious belief of the Jews and Christians as a club to keep them in line.... he had his scribes find justification for the way he wanted things, and made sure that the Text which resulted from the imprisonment of clergy, supported his desires.... and the rest was hunted down and burnt, under the people who held the documents which disagreed....
I believe the Church Fathers had a genuine desire to get things right, but in the landscape of the time, accuracy was not the primary motivation.... THERE WERE TWO POPES at the time, for crying out loud..... and the Pope in Rome was at direct odds with Byzantium - ask yourself why.....
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Do a little research on Irenaeus, he spend much of his life dealing with the gnostic heresy. Of his two writings that still exist, the best known is "Against Heresies", a work consisting of five books dealing with gnosticism. Until the discovery of Gnostic texts at Nag Hammadi in 1946, most information about gnosticism came to us through Irenaeus. This is accurate and grounded in historical truth.
Didn't mean to offend you Dan54... it really WAS funny.... I would suggest a little MORE research for you, however... mine own is ongoing... The Church Fathers, as they are called, had a specific thrust to their actions. You must understand the men, to understand the politics they were engaged in...
I honestly didn't mean to offend, but I can see how I should have been a little more reserved... sorry, Mate..
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I continue with my prayers for her...
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Alexandria was a major center of gnosticism, a religious/philosophical movement that corrupted early Christianity. When we look at the variants in the Alexandrian texts, we find that their gnostic leanings tend to portray Jesus Christ as neither divine nor having come in the flesh as a physical human being. This is why I trust the more reputable Byzantine scribes, evidence demonstrates more faithfulness in the copying process.
Neither accurate nor likely.... and flies in the face of historical truth.... but very funny!!! -
There is always that interesting quote from Origin's writings :-
" The third century church father Origen wrote: "The differences among the manuscripts have become great, either through the negligence of some copyists or through the perverse audacity of others; they either neglect to check over what they have transcribed, or, in the process of checking, they make additions or deletions as they please.""
From :- http://www.religioustolerance.org/morgan01.htm
The link page is very interesting in my opinion.
typical opinion of the time period... then you throw in all the Greeks who are accusing Early Christians of stealing all the good stories in their new faith from previous sources...
I honestly think anyone who feels there is nothing to " prove " about the text of the bible hasn't researched enough... or is not thinking clearly.... It was very clearly put together out of a bunch of pieces, of specifically chosen texts, and all that was meant to remain was a very specific portion of Early Christian belief...
Folks use as their defense a foundation which does not exist in which they feel perfectly secure saying " The Word of God as displayed in the Holy Bible is perfect. "
The reason I say this foundation does not exist is this :
To understand Christian concepts one must understand Jewish concepts.... Concepts which developed over a couple thousand years before the birth of The Christ... which had only been written down after about 1500 years of history... and argued about constantly afterwards.... and were still being argued when The Christ arrived... Concepts which had to be unified for the formation of the Religion of the Empire - if it hadn't happened in 2000 years, do you supposed the EXACT right thing was written down?
There is considerable variety in the text. the same books from different sources have differences.... and there seems to have been the intention of altering the text... proven by evidence... as proven by the addition in 1 John 5:7
No modern translations that I am aware retain this tradition except the KJV and the NKJV.
which means it is recognized as an " addition ", and stricken from the text as such.... and that is only one example... others were provided...
There was by no means a unified Christian Body in effect when the words were written down. We have discovered that it is VERY unlikely that the words were written by the people we commonly ascribe them to, and are at their best - the remembrances of youth by an old man.... because the best bits we've found, which refer to events of the New Testament, were recorded at LEAST 35 years after the fact..and MANY are much much later.... so you are not arguing that God is Perfect - you are arguing that a man's memory had such critical detail.
When we go back to historical personages who are discussing Christianity, a very different picture emerges, which should cause questions...when questioned leads to errors, omissions, and insertions.... which leads to the acknowledgement of themes within the texts... and those which might have been inserted or modified...
So the conclusion MUST be, YES, the text was altered, mistranslated, abused.... but that does not make it worthless... It still remains ALMOST all we have to root through, to discover the Message delivered two thousand years ago... a piece of the puzzle..... but not the only piece....
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For me trying to tease out meaning is the key to my view of scripture. Take for instance the story of the Women found in adultery and the response those without sin cast the first stone, does it matter whether Jesus actually said it, the church made it up, that it is not in the original text, or that it was just an addition, in my view no. I still believe the story is within the spirit of God, whether or not it was true. Where I start to differ is when questionable text is not being used to teach in a spiritual sense but is being used to control and assert one opinion above all other. Cool has talked about a disintegration of the faith but I have to disagree, as the Spirit and voice within each of our hearts is stronger than just basing all on a given text (IMO) being true or not. There is gold in many passages, much that speaks to heart, and debates as to whether a text is accurate, or true come a poor second (IMO) but they become necessary when dogma takes over instead of spiritual growth.
It was also a very fine example of teaching basic Karmic principles....
It's a big circular thing.... that religious thought will have such a wide range of belief.... all we know is : Religion - control=bad , freedom=good ........
and we state our belief clearly........
because there will ALWAYS be a forum to do so...
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I agree Brother Sky.
We are being asked to accept a given text (the bible) just as its given and not to doubt it or to question it. Something that prevents reason in my view.
neither do we understand prevailing sentiment, The structure of daily life, or the colloquiality of Life ( The Common, everyday fluxes of language ) pertaining to a world two thousand years in our Past... The Average Joe doesn't put himself in the place of the Early Jew who was part of the beginning of the Christian Faith...
And in my personal opinion - all the elaborate belief structures built on a shaky footing will tumble before solid reasoning, common sense, and awareness of the subject matter.... and the POINT is : we can most positively be aware of the INTENTIONS people have edited into the book, while we go about deciphering the meaning for ourselves - because, again IMO, there is enough to study on and question within the MESSAGE of the books, that arguing meaning which was printed INTO the books simply takes up useful time..... but until we start answering these question, we have no choice but to simply share what has been shared with us.... handing out a range of beliefs so that folks can choose one that " feels right "..... uncomfortable fact... but a fact nonetheless....
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It reminds of Cronshaws article.
I can't seem to find who produces the site, or what their acedemic credentials are.
Still no text, which is the same issue I have with Cronshaw's article.
The use of the word "proof" seems a bit strong for this discussion.
That is what I think.
I also think what we should do is have some lenghty discussion on each of these citations.
sometimes it's a year later and I'm STILL modifying my opinion of what i FIND says... I could see long conversations there... much less, processing out the OPINIONS we have been taught, that have zero basis in truth...But I have to say... Lack of credentials means very little to me - a clear line of reasoning is my only qualification...
It makes ones task a little easier to go about, IMO, when someone is arguing a point - you must find where it is supported or denied...
searching for themes within a host of texts is an impossible qualification for forum conversations - it's dry dusty work, and takes more time and energy than most will commit... no judgement, just truth...
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Coolhand what do you think of this article on the proof that the Scriptures were altered regarding the Trinty.
people are confused in the separation of the ideas of a triune representation of God, and the Doctrine of The Trinity...
The reason I was so persistent earlier in the conversation was to bring this misconception out.... and make others think of exactly what the difference IS.... It is fair to say that the Doctrine of The Trinity is not supported in the Historical beginnings of Christianity...
But I think the important question is - why IS there a triune representation forwarded? What are the purposes of the concept? And exactly how does it differ in its implementation towards our faith than do the trinity teachings?..... I think these questions are important to hold in your mind, while you search for satisfaction... whoever feels the need to search, that is.... the strange thing is - I never intended that the conversation center so focused ON the trinity.... I knew how touchy a subject it is... But Cool nailed me down on that one.... he knew that any discussion of changes to the text MUST focus on THAT concept..... It was the foundation for the rest of the Crime....
It's a long winding trail to personal satisfaction... and some never find it at all....
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Well, as you said, folks have a tendency to look for what they want within the scriptures, and looking hard enough - find what they seek.... so, with that in mind, wouldn't just sharing the message you've personally found be the right action if you believe the average Christian is Biblically illiterate? Maybe he feels that when they do their searching in the Texts, they'll find the message he is suggesting... Maybe he's been working on his parables.....
I'm curious what course of action YOU think he SHOULD undertake? It seems you were questioning his ability to preach non-standard doctrine.... am I right? That he shouldn't call himself by a name which has very specific connotations? Is that it? What do you think the PROPER action would be if he wants to share such a different message?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBeguUvuDzs