Tsukino_Rei
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Posts posted by Tsukino_Rei
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sister of my best frie d grwin g up had hamsters a lot. she had like 8or9 at one time in cages all over her room. i know no matter wha t she did to make them comfort they would always change it. it always made jen so mad when they didn t like her arangment. she put it back then they would then she would. it always cracked us up how mad she would get but she did always love the littl e things to death. when they would die she would make coffins out of cardboard and every one had to attend the funera l. her dad would dig a hole in the back yard and she tended to all her litle wood markers. but i prefer animals i can inneract with take for walks chase balls and the like. no such thing as to big a dog for me.
Hamsters are surprisingly interactive. There's one game in particular that every young mammal I've met, from hamsters, to kittens, puppies and humans will play. They all love to run up to my feet, tag them, play with them, and run away again. Then come back, tag, play, and run away again. For a hamster that means rolling up to you in their ball, bumping into your feet, being picked up and put down again with a gleeful sound effect, (such as wheeeee!) and then rolling away and coming back to do it again. It's amazing how they react to tone of voice. If I clap my hands and say 'wheee, wanna play! Is it play time?' in a silly voice I've seen some hamsters literally dance in place in front of their door, or get so excited they're not sure what to do with themselves, like a puppy dancing back and forth.
I must admit though, I've never trained a hamster to fetch, and they can't keep up with me if I go for a jog.
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and how does one do that
?I separate out the bits of beddings and hand it to him/her. They just stuff as much as they can in their cheeks then toddle off to unstuff their cheeks and arrange their bed how they like it. I put a bit of extra bedding in the cage for them to find and add to their bed later. My hamsters have really enjoyed this ritual as it satisfies part of their foraging instinct. I can often tell when they fancy more bedding as they snuffle around looking for it when they sit with me.
I don't know if it's "right or wrong" but the only hamster I ever had, my g'ma and I put wood shavings (not saw dust) from Poppy's workshop, some bits of cloth and paper and one of those old "big" match boxes was her 'den'....I don't know how long it took as I had to go to bed, but when I woke in the morning...she was zonked out inside the box that she had stuffed with avail materials.
I traded some of Mormor's (g'ma) cookies and rye bread/cheese sammich to a kid at school for hamster and cage/water bottle and only had her for a couple of days as I traded her for my rat "Charlie" that lived to be "ancient" at a little over 3yrs.
I think that different hamsters have different preferences, if your hammy was happy (and it sounds like your hammy was happy) then you did the right thing! I had a bad experience with a bag of store bought scented shavings, and have been scared to use it ever since. But that's just me.
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Lovely detail on the eye.
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Okeedoke. To shell or not to shell, that is the question.
The answer is I give both shelled nuts and seeds, and unshelled nuts and seeds.
A good reason for giving some unshelled (I have a bag of pre-shelled seeds) would be to encourage the hamster to eat more of them with less effort. Another good reason is to keep the cage tidier/free of an excess of shells.
But it is also a good idea to provide some food that he/she has to work for, both because it's fun for them and because it's good for their teeth to have more grinding to do. Hamster teeth are constantly growing, and when they don't have enough to gnaw on or if there is problem with their teeth they can grow until they can't close their mouths and even grow painfully through the roof of their mouth. I hide peanuts in their shells in his hay throughout the cage, his food mix includes some sunflower seeds in their shells, and every now and then I like to give my hamster a walnut. They'll spend a couple of days working on it, then I crack it a bit for them and they can do the rest. A hamsters teeth is not strong enough to get into a walnut on their own, but some of them sure will try. >.< Although I did have one little girl, Maggie, figure out that if she just left it alone I'd open it for her. Then she started bringing her peanuts to me to open as well. Lazy cow.
So I guess it does also depend on personality. But most of my hamsters have made a game of getting into the nuts themselves. Of course, when a hamster gets older they can need more help with things like that. But until then it's good for their mental and physical health to keep doing some things for themselves.
Another good activity to give a hamster to do is make their own bed.
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Argh, I just accidentally deleted a really long post with the back button on my mouse!
I need to go restore my chi, do some chores, and be back in the evening to try again!
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Thank you guys.
I appreciate your support! And I bet Rover eats up all that play time, Fawzo. I've had six hamsters over the years, most of them female. My current little guy is the one that's teaching me more about hamster old age than any other hamster I've had. He's three and half years old! For a species that normally lives to the ripe old age of two he's incredible. His energy is still good, now that I give him the cod-liver oil, but if you look at his face really closely you can see little wrinkles under his fur. It's so hard knowing his days are numbered. Especially since he was super hyper and loved to just explore all over the place when he was young, and then just as I had my miscarriage he suddenly became very cuddly and began to cuddle against my arm and let me stroke him while I watch TV throughout my sleepless nights. Anytime he heard me enter the room he just came out to his door and waited expectantly. He has been the best, most supportive, fuzzy companion a girl could hope for.
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From a philosophical point of view
....does size matter in spirituality?
.....Length of time?
...degree of frequency?
..........measure of intent or intentsity?
...and so forth?
von
I suppose as in sex, so in spirituality. Questions of size, length of time, degree or frequency, and measures of intent or intensity are all eclipsed by the question of an intimacy born of trust and love.
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There's nothing quite like kitty glee!
The empty bathtub has become his personal slip and slide, and I know that somewhere in our apartment there is a box of styrofoam bubbles because every now and then he shows up with a new one and he beats it around until it's pulverized, then he shows up with another one!
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(Always check with a vet asap if your hamster is unwell. Illnesses progress very quickly in small animals. But if the diagnosis is creeping old age then try some of the tips below.)
1. If possible, use a single level cage as climbing can become more difficult and tiring as they get older. Otherwise, make sure all the important things are on the bottom level of the cage. ie, water bottle, litter box, house, and food dish.
2. If your hamsters fur looks a bit dull, or he is a bit low on energy (aside from checking with your vet) try adding more nuts and seeds to the diet. Sunflower seeds are my hamsters favourite. The added natural oils in their diet seems to brighten them up. If this doesn't work as well as you'd like, or you notice some fur thinning try a little bit of dried bread with a drop or two of cod-liver oil.
3. Extra cuddles! This is the time when hamsters really begin to appreciate sharing their owners body warmth, maybe sitting on the sofa with you while you watch TV. Rubbing along the back and around the joints in slow circular motions can lull my hamster for up to an hour, sometimes more. This helps with the stiffness that the elderly are prone to, and so helps our furry friends to get around their cages with a bit more ease.
4. Daily Health Checks! Cuddle time can also be used to give your hamster a quick health check. Check their teeth to see that they are not becoming overgrown. Some hamsters have difficult chewing in their old age. You or your vet can manually trim the teeth when this happens. Fortunately I've not faced that issue yet! Also check eye brightness, and check the bottom and urinary area for any signs of infection. Generally, if the hamster has bright eyes, is curious, and is eating there should be no cause for concern.
5. Cage checks. Things to watch out for when you are cleaning out the cage are; is the litterbox filling more quickly, is the water bottle emptying more quickly (these can be signed of diabetes), is his dry food/nuts not being eaten? (This can be a sign of a tooth problem, in which case check his teeth)
6. Alternative food. If your hamster is unable to manage is normal food mix, because chewing is too much effort or because of a problem with his teeth, alternatives include; Oatmeal, or a variety of baby foods. At this point gently warming the food will most likely be appreciated.
7. If your elderly hamster is normally very relaxed with you, then starts acting a bit frantic like he's looking for something, I suggest giving him a little break in his cage. I learned the hard way that my little boys bladder control just isn't what it used to be. =o) -. incidentally, at any age this is often sign that a foraging instinct has kicked in. Check the cage to see if he/she has run low on water, or food, check the litter box to see if it's been filled up already, and finally offer your hammie some clean bedding to pouch and carry home. Odds are high that he or she is looking for one of those things.
8. When it's time, let the hamster go peacefully. When you take your hamster to the vet for the last time you will be asked to sign a form giving permission for the hamster to be put to sleep. It's not very expensive. Most vets offer special lower rates for small animals. First the hamster will be given an anaesthetic. Then a lethal injection. This is normally done in another room.
The most recent hammie that I had to have put down was a sweet girl named Kaylee. She had organ failure. The vet had said she might have a couple of weeks before her final appointment, but it progressed faster than expected, as these things often do with small animals. She'd already had two months of steady appointments. It started with a sniffle, progressed to a flu. This progressed to an infection. The bad luck was that this particular infection was a strain which shared a very similar protein to her own nervous system. So the anti-biotic to treat the illness also damaged her nervous system. This is a known condition in hamsters. The net result was partial paralysis in her hind legs, followed by kidney failure, followed by total organ failure. Through all this there as no sign that she was in pain, and she still enjoyed time out and cuddles, so the vet didn't recommend lethal injection yet, but expected it would be some time within the next two weeks. Sadly over the weekend she took a turn for the worst. I spent two nights sitting with her, moved her cage into the bedroom so I could watch her while I was laying down. Heated up my microwaveable bean bags and set them around the corner of the cage where she slept. I practically had her on life support. When she was thirsty I had to hold her up and hold the bottle for her because she couldn't lift herself to reach the cage. She needed help to get into her litter box and back out again. I had to hold the oatmeal up to her mouth to help her eat. I couldn't bring myself to stop doing these things for her because I didn't want her to suffer. When I was finally able to get her to the vet on Monday morning she didn't even get as far as the lethal injection. The anaesthetic overwhelmed her.
I tell that story to try to convey to you that, while it's a difficult and horrible thing to have to do, putting your pet to sleep when it is time and is recommended by your vet is an act of love.
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Thank you for the designs!
I made an uber scratching post out of carpet rolls I rescued from a local carpet store. The manager was happy to give them to me, and even gave me a scrap of carpet that was going in their bin.
I cut the carpet roll into three pieces. Two about the height of a door frame, and one about knee high. I wrapped them in two different types of string, and some slender blue rope. I also cut the legs off of two old pairs of trousers. One tweed, and one jean. And I cut up an old wicker shopping bag. I used all of these to vary the surface of the tubes.
Next I obtained two pieces of thin scrap ply wood from the local DIY shop. These I covered in the scrap carpet. One I put on the bottom as the base, the other I used as a shelf.
I bought some simple metal shelf supports, taped them to the poles, and attached them to the base, again using tape. I used more scrap wood, narrow bars, with tape and string, to create a frame, to stabilize the poles and create a place for the shelf to rest on.
I glued on the shelf.
Included on the frame was a bar stretching between the two tall poles, from that I dangled one of those multi-layered toy/laundry nets that are designed to hang in a closet and has lots of compartments. I trimmed off all but the top two compartments and cut a hole between them to make them one net tube. I attached a dangling toy to the inside, and put crinkly paper in the base.
Also dangling from one pole is a squeeky mouse toy, and from the other is a shoelace with a bell.
Happy Kitty. =o)
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I like the post but there are a few nitpicks I want to make. I think it's inaccurate to compare BIID with gender identity issues. Yes, both result from neurological phenomena, but there is a marked difference. Apotemnophilia, which BIID is an extreme manifestation of, is typically classified as a monothematic delusion. Monothematic delusions are a spectrum of single-focus delusions resulting largely(though not always) from brain trauma. It's an important distinction to make because with monothematic delusions, the brain itself actually is damaged, it's broken and malfunctioning. Not exactly something you want to compare as analagous to gender identity issues. Now, if you look at a transexual, for instance, there is no overt sign of any actual trauma to the brain. It appears to be more developmental in nature and not severe enough to truly be called a malformity. Now, if you look at the BSTc of the stria terminalis in a transexual, you will see it corresponds more closely to the BSTc of a member of the opposite reproductive identity in terms of size. So a person could be born with male reproductive parts, but their brain is female for want of a better term. There is also the INAH3 which shows strong correspondence as an indicator of sexuality, including homosexuality and bisexuality. These are developmental aspects of the brain and are not malfunctioning, where the brain in the case of a sufferer of BIID is malfunctioning. One is health, the other is wracked with cognitive trauma. So I think trying to build a basis for comparing the two is a poor tactic overall.
I think the "how we are meant to be" argument is begging the question. It assumes purpose where there isn't any. In our godless universe, there is no inherent purpose or intelligent driving force behind it. Biologically, our purpose would be to see offspring to sexual maturity so that the offspring themselves can continue the cycle. It's a lot more than just popping out a child and involves raising the offspring over the long term. A role homosexuals, bisexuals, transexual, et cetera in our species and others fulfills perfectly. In several species, orphanned members are adopted by homosexual couples, as an example. They then see these members that would otherwise have died to maturity. This is most easily seen in several species of bird.
We're machines made out of meat running our little neuron computers to navigate the world around us. Who we are is our brain. Our personality, emotion, hopes, dreams, worries, it's all up there running in the synaptic circuitry of our brain. As comforting as it would be to think there is something more, some place we'll get to see our departed loved ones, some world of bliss where there is no suffering, there is no indication of any of this. I'd rather hard and even painful truth than I would lying to myself and convincing myself that my make believe exists. There is no afterlife, so we should strive to create one. There is no world of perfect bliss, so we should work to create one. There is no inherent purpose, so we should seek to form one for ourselves. This last part is the easiest to do and the one we do anyway. You weren't born as you are with any sort of purpose. You're suffering isn't part of some design. Neither is your joy. The good news is that knowing that frees you. You don't have to spend your life wondering why X bad thing happened. There is no "why". So now you are freed up to do what needs to be done to make sure it doesn't happen again and to heal the lingering effects of it. Superstition is a prison. It is comfortable because it is familiar. People with monothematic delusions are not born with knowledge of their "true self". They have a defect. One we should be moved with pity and compassion to fix. One need only to look at a patient with Cotard Delusion to realize that.
I see your point, and meant no offence. I drew the comparison only for the purpose of illustrating that synaptic variances can be expressed through a form of cognitive awareness , which I find quite remarkable.
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http://en.wikipedia....entity_disorder
There is a condition that can occur in which the brain incorrectly wires to parts of the bodies, usually limbs and most commonly the white leg of white, middle aged, males. This incorrect wiring translates to the individual suffering this as a strong sense that the limb is not truly part of them and should not be there. They know that their brain is telling them that their body is not right and that their body will not feel right until this limb is gone.
The most widely accepted current theory on the origin of BIID is that it is a neurological failing of the brain's inner body mapping function (located in the right parietal lobe). According to this theory, the brain mapping does not incorporate the affected limb in its understanding of the body's physical form.Many psychologists and neurologists have ventured theories into what causes this type of thought. The common leading idea is that Body Integrity Identity Disorder, or BIID, occurs when the brain is not able to provide an accurate plan of the body. In this case, the brain sees the offending limb as being foreign and not actually a part of the person, thus the desire to have it removed.Remarkably, these individuals know very clearly EXACTLY how their brain has patterned their body and what alterations need to be made to match their bodies to that pattern in order to achieve that sense of wholeness and rightness.
Now, given this, I would point out that there are many many ways in which an individuals biological gender can be medically in question regardless of their outward physical appearance. It may be as difficult to see as an extra chromosome, or additional male or female organs that have grown inside an individual which only come to light when a doctor has reason to go exploring internally. Rarely it can be in the form of being born with additional visible organs which these days parents will often choose to have operated for removal asap. It seems apparent to me that these individuals brains would pattern accordingly and that these individuals might very probably gain a very strong sense that they are not as they should be and will not feel whole or right within themselves until their bodies do match what their brains have patterned. These people would know exactly what gender alterations would bring them to the point where their brains will allow them to feel comfortable within their own bodies.
Growing up within religion I was always taught that God made me exactly as I should be and that I must see myself as beautiful because of Him. But, the reality of procreation is that a lot can go wrong. Human procreation is extremely hit and miss. At least 1 in 4 pregnancies end in early miscarriage due to genetic problems. Doctors now believe that miscarriages are much more common than that, but are thought to just be heavy or late periods. Pregnant women are traditionally discouraged from telling their families until after the heart has developed and a healthy heartbeat is found. In many cases the heart just doesn't grow.
Once the second trimester is reached, and a healthy developing heart is found, the chances of miscarriage drop much lower. But there is still a very long list of genetic conditions which can cause a late miscarriage and which doctors watch for the signs of. There are some genetic conditions which may not cause miscarriage, but which doctors can also watch for, such as down syndrome.
Other genetic conditions include colour blindness, the ability to see additional colours, various forms of dyslexia, autism spectrum disorder, all prove even further that minor differences in our dna, or in the way our bodies translate those teeny instruction manuals, can create amazing differences in our development as human beings.
As many genetic errors that can occur by simple accident, so very many can also occur because of exposure to environmental toxins, or lack of diversity within a population, hence why inbreeding is really unhealthy.
Given all this it seems unjustifiable to look upon another human being that feels a wrongness at their apparent gender and tell them that they're wrong to feel this way. What decides what a person was meant to be? Is it possible to recognise that the biological process of reproduction is extremely fallible without pointing a finger at God and accusing Him of making mistakes?
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Yep, but they couldn't scratch out all of the references. They had to leave in the passage that says that the Baptist was Elijah returning to announce the coming of the Messiah. There's also the verse about one of the blind men that Jesus healed. The disciples asked if the man was born blind because of his sins or his father's sins, and the Christ told them that the man chose to be born blind just to allow the Christ to heal him.
It's amazing what can still be found, isn't it? That's why reading the Bible exegetically had to totally change my theology! -
http://reluctant-mes...nation-pope.htm
The early Christian Church believed in reincarnation up until an Emperor decreed against it.
A prominent theologian named Origen wrote around 250 AD about the pre-existence of the soul. He taught that the soul’s very source was God and that the soul was traveling back to oneness with God via the lessons learned in multiple lives. He taught that Christ came to show us what we can become. For centuries this was the mainstream view of Christianity but 300 years later it became a huge issue and the belief was made illegal because Emperor Constantine believed it was dangerous to the Empire to believe in reincarnation.In the sixth century A.D., Emperor Justinian and Pope Vigilius disagreed on whether or not the teachings of Origen should be condemned as heresy. The Pope supported the teaching as being consistent with the teachings of Jesus the Messiah. The Emperor was determined to eradicate the belief even though the Pope and the church believed in reincarnation. The fact that the doctrine of reincarnation had been a part of Christian theology for over 500 years did not sway the Emperor.
Origen's writings were considered heresy by important cardinals in the sixth century. Origen's teachings had been considered as profound spiritual wisdom for three centuries. Origen lived around 250 AD and wrote about the pre-existence of the soul and in reincarnation. He taught that the soul’s very source was God and that the soul’s was traveling back to oneness with God via Reincarnation.
Emperor Justinian wanted Origen’s writings and teachings to be condemned and destroyed but Pope Vigilius refused to sign a papal decree condemning Origen's teachings on reincarnation. As a result of his disobedience, the Emperor had the Pope arrested and put into jail. In 543, Justinian convoked the Fifth General Council of the Church and told the Pope he would sign whatever into doctrine whatever the council decided. On the way there, under guard, the Pope escaped to avoid being forced to condemn Origen’s writings. The Emperor commanded the council to continue despite the Pope’s refusal to attend.
There was a logical reason why the Emperor was opposed to the concept that all of mankind originally came from God and was returing to God via the cycle of birth and death. Justinian had been convinced by high ranking cardinals that it was not in the interest of the empire to allow Origen's writings to continue to be copied and distributed. A powerful group of Cardinal’s and Bishop’s explained that if every soul had once pre-existed with God, then Christ wasn’t anything special to have come from God. These Cardinals convinced the Emperor that if people realized they were the children of God they might begin to believe they no longer needed an Emperor, or to pay taxes, or to obey the Holy Church. But since they reasoned that only Christ had come from God but God made brand new souls at the time of conception and only the Holy Church could bring these souls to God. Without the protection of the Empire or the guidance of the church, all people would be doomed to be forever cut off from God in Hell. This doctrine was very acceptabloe to the Emperor. Once Justinian understood the political danger inherent in Origen’s teachings, the rest was simply an Emperor doing what was in his best interest.
The council, as instructed by the Emperor, produced fourteen new anathemas and the very first one condemned reincarnation and the concept that souls pre-existed with God.
"If anyone asserts the fabulous preexistence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema."
Links to further research available here: http://reluctant-messenger.com/origen.html
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Sort of like the irrelevant point of how Liberal Christians are viewed by Orthodox ones.
I got tired of watching this dog chase its tail days ago.
But, sects jokes!
However, I thought it did have deeper point and I thank you for giving me that thought.
You're welcome. Discussions regarding sects and divisions always put me in mind of the Prayer in Gethsemane; the part where Jesus prays for Unity. Also the part in Corinthians where Paul says don't say you follow so and so. Even all the way back then it seems there were people grouping up under the teachings of particular men rather than tending to their own philosophical and spiritual development.
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I think most major faiths denominations were sects at one time. It is hard when you are saying something different to what others expect you too (IMO).
Yet, because a thing is different that does not mean that it is without foundation or has not truths within it.
For some it is the perception of odd and differing beliefs and to others it is seen as pointing out that the King may have no clothes or at least is missing some.
Christianity itself was a sect of Judaism at one time (the new way).
Life is never without interest and we learn more each day (IMO). Some of that is comfortable and some of that is not, but life goes on regardless.
All I really wanted was a cheap excuse for a 'sects' pun.
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IMHO none of this discussion has been very good as there is too much opinionated finger pointing. It seems that even though this is a forum for open discussion, there are many that are taking the perspective that their opinion is the only correct opinion. I aim that accusation at both sides of the issue. There have been a number of posts that are on the verge of accusatory and non-tolerant of other people's beliefs. I have stayed out of this for quite a while, but I agree with Rainbow here and feel the need to express it. People are trying to play gotcha games and maneuvering like it is a game of chess rather than having an open and honest discussion. Again - this is just my 2 cents worth.
*bursts into song*
Let's talk about sects baby!
Let's talk about you and me
Let's talk about all the good things
And the bad things that may be
Let's talk about sects!
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Why is it antisemitic? Being Jewish and part of Judaism are two very different things.
Anyways don't take my word on it see:-
Messianic Judaism is a Christian religious movement. It differs from mainstream Christianity in that it combines Christian theology (the centrality of Jesus as Messiah, savior, and God) with selected elements of Jewish ritual and terminology.....
Judaism
Jewish theology rejects the idea that the messiah (or any other person) is a divinity,[13] and such an idea has often been regarded as idolatrous. Nor does Judaism view the role of the messiah to be the salvation of the world from its sins (an idea widely accepted by Christians and messianic Jews). Judaism does not accept Jesus as the biblical messiah, nor does it assign him any religious role at all. Contrary to Messianic Jew or Christian thoughts, Jewish theological beliefs concerning Jesus center around the following points, all of which serve to invalidate Jesus (Yeshua) as the Messiah, according to Jewish theology.
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish?[13]
The Tanakh says that he will:
A.) Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
B.) Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
C.) Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
D.) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
Jesus (Yeshua) did not accomplish any of these prophecies to be considered the Messiah in Jewish eyes.
http://en.wikipedia....ssianic_Judaism
If one defines a religion according to the deity that they worship, then Messianic Jews are actually Christians because they recognize the existence of the Christian Trinity and the divinity of Yeshua.
http://www.religious...rg/mess_jud.htm
Messianic Judaism is not seen as a legitimate form of Judaism by any recognized Jewish organization or leaders, apart from a handful of dissenting voices among the Reform and Reconstructionist Jewish movements.
Pete's right. I'm friends with some Liberal Jews and even they view Messianic Judaism as strictly a branch of Christianity, quite adamantly. The idea of Messianic Judaism as a branch of Judaism is actually quite anti-semetic to them, in no small part because these Christians have a tendency to waltz into Synagogues and claim that they have True Judaism and all these other Jews have been blinded by Satan.
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Earlier in this discussion I posted a Scripture from Daniel:
12 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wisea will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.
The Holy Bible : New International Version (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1996, c1984), Da 12:1-3.
Explain how this is not from Judaism in regard to your claim.
simple, in Judaism that passage is understood differently than it is in Fundamentalist Christianity. Quoting passages will not alter the fact that the Jewish interpretation and understanding of the passages holds no relation to the Fundamentalist Christian or Islamic interpretation of the passages.
Hell as a place of eternal torment, as defined by Fundamentalist Christianity, is against God's law, the Law of Jubilee actually. To allow any being to experience eternal torment would require God to sin against Himself.
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Coolhand, if it turned out that your God wasn't all powerful would your love for that god collapse, or would you simply incorporate your new understanding into your relationship?
If it worked out that Mary was bonked by a travelling salesman would that make a difference, to you, to the depth and power contained within the philosophies of Christ?
What kind of faith is so dependent on the specificities of dogma that all worth and value and meaning implodes in the absence of that dogma? Surely that is no faith at all. Rather it is a foundation of idols demanding that all reason be sacrificed on its altar.
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Are you sure we would both revere Micah 6:
The Lord’s Case Against Israel
6 Listen to what the Lord says:
“Stand up, plead your case before the mountains;
let the hills hear what you have to say.
2 Hear, O mountains, the Lord’s accusation;
listen, you everlasting foundations of the earth.
For the Lord has a case against his people;
he is lodging a charge against Israel.
3 “My people, what have I done to you?
How have I burdened you? Answer me.
4 I brought you up out of Egypt
and redeemed you from the land of slavery.
I sent Moses to lead you,
also Aaron and Miriam.
5 My people, remember
what Balak king of Moab counseled
and what Balaam son of Beor answered.
Remember your journey from **tim to Gilgal,
that you may know the righteous acts of the Lord.”
6 With what shall I come before the Lord
and bow down before the exalted God?
Shall I come before him with burnt offerings,
with calves a year old?
7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams,
with ten thousand rivers of oil?
Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression,
the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8 He has showed you, O man, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.
Israel’s Guilt and Punishment
9 Listen! The Lord is calling to the city—
and to fear your name is wisdom—
“Heed the rod and the One who appointed it.
10 Am I still to forget, O wicked house,
your ill-gotten treasures
and the short ephah, which is
accursed?
11 Shall I acquit a man with dishonest scales,
with a bag of false weights?
12 Her rich men are violent;
her people are liars
and their tongues speak deceitfully.
13 Therefore, I have begun to destroy you,
to ruin you because of your sins.
14 You will eat but not be satisfied;
your stomach will still be empty.
You will store up but save nothing,
because what you save I will give to the sword.
15 You will plant but not harvest;
you will press olives but not use the oil on yourselves,
you will crush grapes but not drink the wine.
16 You have observed the statutes of Omri
and all the practices of Ahab’s house,
and you have followed their traditions.
Therefore I will give you over to ruin
and your people to derision;
you will bear the scorn of the nations.”
The Holy Bible : New International Version (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1996, c1984), Mic 6:1-16.
You can't not realize that that was condescending.
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Actually this particular question WAS rhetorical...
(The only question I wanted answered was "which of us created a dichotomy?")
Perhaps I should have shown more stress on the word: "supposed".
Let me put it otherwise:
Why should I be obliged to supply you with hope?
That is not my responsibility.
You should not expect to find hope when you first confront a truth.
You should be troubled by it:
Jesus said,
1 "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find.
2 When they find, they will be disturbed.
3 When they are disturbed, they will marvel,
4 and will rule over all."
Logion 2, Gospel of Thomas
No one can supply hope to another.
You can be the reason, you can become the catalyst
for someone else to "build hope" out of their own
emotional, intellectual and spiritual resources.
But you cannot provide hope to another.
So, I'm sorry, but I can't give it to you.
I am not sure that I can even begin to explain to you (or to anyone)
how it is that knowing that good and evil are inside of us all,
that there is no safe place where one can hide from evil,
why knowing this doesn't bother me...but it doesn't.
What I know is that each of us has to "construct his own bravery",
each of us has to "create his own hopeful vision",
in the face of "whatever truths" he encounter in life.
Wow Hex! That's some food for thought. And it ain't baby formula! Reading your post it occurs to me that the responsibility to find hope for ourselves is necessary to free-will. If the discovery and wisdom were simply injected unto us with no individual mental or spiritual participation then we'd be robots. It's through our mental processes of internalization that what we learn becomes part of who we are and what we project to the world. It is as Tolkein wrote - we are little creators.
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Is it God's fault if good allows evil to exist, or is it our fault? A predominately Christian nation (America) sat on their hands and watched the holocaust happen, so why blame God when we had the power to stop it? When we finally got off our butts, God was with us, our prayers were answered, and good triumphed over evil. If King David or Joshua refused to fight, would God had given them the victory? God hears prayers and will give us the victory, but I believe he expects us to make an effort to fight the good fight. If we our willingly lead as sheep to the slaughter, its not God's fault.
The same predominantly Christian nation (America) also experimented with radiation doses on hospitalized citizens without their knowledge, studied the progression of syphilis without treatment in their own citizens, and practiced forced eugenics. Among other things.
Germany was predominantly Christian too.
In fact, in some western nations poor moral character was concidered to be a genetic trait. So young women who became pregnant out of wedlock were a target for eugenics, right along with homosexuals.
Religion claimed support from science and together they set out to purge evil from humanity and in so doing commited some of the most evil acts of inhumanity.
What is the lesson here?
Certainly not that any single person or group of people should claim moral authority over others and then enforce that authority.
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If you are right, why does evil still exist? Why havent we well intentioned humans been able to extinguish evil? If humans allowed 6 million Jews to be killed and could have stopped it without spiritual help and did not, does that not prove man is flawed?
If being responsible for the death of 6 million Jews is what makes someone flawed, then I'm perfect. Also, it seems odd to me that the existence of imperfect beings would be proof of the existence of a perfect being. Rather, good and evil are human conceptualizations which speak only of the intention and/or result of human action.
Hexalpa's argument that hope and truth are created and discovered by ourselves is an accurate one, and it is not a question of co-existence, but of pre-existence. Hope and truth are not something that exist outside of each individual. We each are responsible to learn and study for ourselves, to process the information, internalize it, and through our life experiences turn wisdom into hope. If somebody else studies Physics and gains a Doctorate of Physics, even someone I know, I do not then by proxy become a Physicist.
If there existed a book that contained everything about the universe, it's contents would not exist as Truth, or Knowledge, or Hope until a human being picked it up and read it.
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