Br. Josef
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Posts posted by Br. Josef
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I sent MD Taylor the PDF of the more recent AG offices responce to this issue... Dealing primarily with a request from the Monastery for a statement as to why the County in question and the state as a whole was refusing to recognise the ministers there.
It is my humble (non legal) advice to start suggesting to those who want to be wed by family to take a drive to a near by state and perform the legal portion of the wedding outside of the state. This will effect the revenue in the state only slightly but the number of weddings will be potentially reduced making those in power take note. Additionally, the state has no juristition over a churches right to perform a religious sacrement and as such the full wedding ceremony may be done in state with out the legal portion being done at the same time. There are at least three nearby states that would love to have a couple buy their licences for a civil union from them instead of Virginia.
If you do a religious ceremony for a couple remember to leave out the line "by the state of..." since they don't have the authority to say one way or the other as you bestowe the religious sacrement on a couple.
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I have traded emails with what seems to be the most outspoken Circuit Court Clerk in this matter. The AG has not made an official statement. The AG's office has had a lessor employee make a statement based on Cramer vs Cramer 1974 and this is what they are saying is the official statement. In this statement which I do not have a available on my laptop (I will locate and post a link for sometime this weekend). In this letter to the County Clerk in question the writer even states that his statement is not from the AG but by him a member of his staff.
That said there is no law at the moment that specifically bans mail order or online ordinations from being recognized. The Clerks have been allowed to refuse recognition of ministers that have been ordained online or by mail.
I have personally suggested that those looking to be wed by family or nontraditional clergy go to a neighboring state and have the legal portion of the wedding performed out of state.
Disclaimer: I am not an attorney and this should not be taken as final legal advice but as a personal and private suggestion of a path to more information.
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Will keep you in thought and hope you find it easier than you expect.
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May the Creator of all things Heaven and Earth heal her now and comfort those close to her with a Peace that surpasses all understanding.
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Fawzo,
But the passage can also be read, "G-d was in this place and I [ie. within me]. I did not know it." Again, it expresses Jacob's surprise in finding G-d where he did not expect, but it deepens where G-d can be found and expresses a different realization as to the relationship between humanity and the divine.
Another way I have heard that translated took into account that English is the most word ordered language and if you take that into account ... `~ God was with me in this place, and I did not know it.~' still the rather grand realization that he had failed to realize something important. ('... & I hadn't realized')
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i waited until late to see if anyone non-military would post something...
In a way I am surprised. On the smae hand, I am also not surprised - it was an event that occurred 68 years ago, and I am guessing that there would be few (if any) people in the room who would have been alive then. Yes, it was an important even in American (and world) history. However, those of later generations (especially post-Vietnam) don't understand as easily in part because of there not being a real need for a "large" increase in military personnel and a different attidude towards the military. At one time an event like Pearl Harbour (or September 11th) would make people want to do the patriotic thing and join the military. Now people few Patriotism in a different light. At least in my opinion based on the trends I see.
Sorry, I was mostly offline or playing Day of Defeat online with people. You might just be surprised at how many college types had grandparents in the war. My grandparents all died in the last 3 years so I had a bit on my mind and was otherwise preoccupied. My one grandfather was in the war in every country we had troops go to to fight and was often there for a day or so after we took the villages and would donate portions of his rations to feed the starving children, other soldiers copied this and children at least had something. He came home on the USS Wasp (the one that later finished the war) and was hit by a storm at sea that collapsed the carrier deck into the water and was reportedly the only one that hadn't thrown up during the storm and he was army not navy (well that is what they all told grandma and Grandpa never denied it and he was known for being a bit too honest). He did have some bad water once after that and had 7 really bad years. War is nothing fun for those stuck in it. Dec. 7 is a day remembered even if we forget that it is the 7th at the time. Dec 1st is also an important day since it was the day that a group of disabled (differently abled) civilian (some former military) pilots started both a war time predecessor and now auxiliary to the U.S. Air Force (nope not the A.A.C). Sometimes given I am only 34 and was not alive 68 years ago people over look that I might know about WW2 and what days were important. I was in Europe on D-Day VE-day and witnessed the celebrations in the UK honoring the veterans of the war. I was there for VJ-day too but obviously that was less significant over there.
I know one thing and that is: If I were stuck going back in time and fighting with them I would be honored and still I would demand to take a lot of better gear back with me; those guys fought with crap by comparison to the old stuff we had to use only a decade ago. Our grandparents were real men and really strong women.
Some days that also should be remembered for more than they are given ... Nov 11, That last Monday in May, 1996 the June day my squadron got blown up in Saudi while in their barracks and little was done about it.
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I read it twice over and have thought something like it many times.
There are so many things that I would like to have changed in my passed life so that I or those around me would have not had to suffer.
But, if I were ever offered to have God change any one thing in my life before today I would have to firmly say no because everything no matter how bad it was to endure and how strongly the worst of situations made me wonder where God was in all of this, there are too many things that I hold dear now that I would not have had if it were not for the worst of moments.
I still dream of ways that just maybe if this or that had not happened I might still have my wife and my sons and I might still know all my other friends. But, then I realize that had I not been in that one place at that moment I would never have been in that other place at the time I met that person and really all of the people I knew as friends no matter how long or short of a time that time with those people was priceless and I could not endure the loss of those memories.
I do wish though that the ghosts would go away and the memories of certain past veterans' next of kin and the phone calls (when I could not tell them yet about their sons' sacrifice) would go away. Those are not fun at all and though I have been in places where my life and limb were on the line, it is the loss of those others that haunt not the pistol or rifle aimed at me and not the knife at my throat.
What if is a hard dream to get rid of; but it is like a candy cane to a starved refuge, It is sweet and pleasant for a moment but it does not provide the nutrition needed to survive.
But like you, I can't help but think what if they had lived. The one good thing is that for a moment when I think that I find it easy to forgive the others but just for the moment; and then I go back to being distrusting of a certain people and angry at the Sin that killed my friends. So perhaps in small doses a bit of 'what if' is a good thing just as long as we do not let it rot us from the inside out.
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That is the appearance of the legal code. This said that if they allow one religion or in this case 2 different ones with out recognising other religions right to the same then there would be an issue.
Talk to the local county clerks office and make your request there. Though under that law the simple answer is that If you are either a minister of the Gosple (Christian) Or Jewish and are ordained no matter the ordaining body (IE ULC does qualify under that part).
Additionally, even if the practice is to allow any minister from any religious group to perform the marriage officiate procedure, it may be wise to bring this up to your elected officials so that can be changed and be corrected under the legal system there as the constitutional law is fairly clear on the equality and freedom of religion idea.
Just my 2 and a half cents, nothing official.
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As does the original poster.
I see you ask if they are willing to do some legal work for the church; but I missed that you implied they do the documents specifically.
Notably, the first poster was asking in general and I meant to be specific to the attorney friend posting previously in forum.
but anyway I guess it all comes down to the same question and hopefully the same answer.
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There is a couple that wants to get married. They've asked me to officiate. I know the laws for California, where I lived when I became ordained. But the laws for NY are confusing. They want to get married on Long Island which is outside NYC.
I called the county clerk who said I had to talk to someone in the town that the marriage is taking place. She gave me a number and I called it (I can't remember which office it was...these people talked too fast). That person transferred me and the next person did as well. Finally I got someone. I asked "What is needed for a minister to be able to perform a marriage?"
The answer I received was, "They must be ordained and have a congregation."
I'm a little confused as she didn't say what exactly constitutes a "congregation". I do have a group that gets together to worship on a monthly basis (sometimes more). There are 6 of us and somehow I wound up leading everything. Does that count?
My husband said I should call them back but the woman was a little rude. She hung up on me right after telling me what was needed. I would call and complain about it but I don't know who to complain to. I'm not even sure what office I was talking to since they transferred me so many times.
If anyone has any information I would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you.
The answer is that the good clerks around NYC have been trampled on for not properly recognizing the ULC and the ULC originated denominations as well as some smaller religious groups. This is because some of the clergy have become angry over the ignorance of those running the system into the ground over the clergy persons seeking to work with the system that the clerks have chosen to abuse and break over same clergy persons' heads.
The answer is that a congregation is the people who meet however many or regularly this happens is up to your congregation. It would seem you have a congregation of 6 possibly looking to expand.
If you have more issues feel free to write a state congressman or woman and let vent your frustrations in a professional and usefully suggestive manner. Keep a list of names of who you contact as well as when and what was said. Be accurate, be polite and practice what questions you may need to ask to find out what you need to know. Clerks are not commonly pleasant nor are they commonly able to give intelligent answers to the questions that are not specifically asked and in there scripted answer sheet.
This is advice from the other side of the country but there has been some news previously from NYC dealing with ULC++ ministers.
It would also be advisable to obtain a copy of the state statutes and codes on clergy recognition and any others you may find useful.
This link may prove somewhat useful. Try breathing while you read it ... It is very long. http://www.health.state.ny.us/vital_records/married.htm
Inside NYC they have seemingly tossed out the state law and written some of their own which is in conflict with the state but the state seems to have chosen to endorse the obsurdity of having one city not under state law.
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I am an attorney licensed in Wisconsin and Minnesota. I think the quickest and easiest thing is just to provide the letter to the clerk. Even if the clerk doesn't have authority to ask for the letter (and I didn't research whether or not she has authority), is it worth it to get into it with the clerk? You can't fight city hall, and even when you can, you won't make friends. My county has a sample letter of sponsorship on their website : http://www.co.saint-...SPONSORSHIP.pdf.
The clerk may be trying to cover herself so she is not in violation of sec. 765.30(2)(b), which is punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 and or up to 9 months in jail. See http://nxt.legis.sta...tes/13857/13881.
Amy Rapoport
Sad I would have to suggest this but in the case of more ministers who might need to come to Wisconsin are you up to having them request sponcership from you?
I doubt it would be a substantial burden to fill in a name and sign your own on a preprinted form and fax/mail this to the other ministers who would likely offer to pay for postage if needed.
the second link failed and may need to be updated.
http://nxt.legis.state.wi.us/nxt/gateway.dll/Statutes%20Related/Wisconsin%20Statutes/13857/13881System Message
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The document you requested could not be retrieved.
Please contact the site administrator to report this problem.
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Good to hear that you are feeling better and can continue. I have not heard your show and I was hoping to get the chance next time.
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You can borrow my bible if I can borrow the Brewer's Bible. Man, I almost forgot about the beer! I can get the parts we need from the dispensary with a little bribing...
What do you mean? The beer is the bribe; especially if the guards are marines.
After all why go under the wire if you can go out the gate.
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hmmm, 5 books I haven't read yet but would be pretty sure I would read again.
1) The oldest English translated bible (translated from French a few years before king James.) since I would have Rainbows to steal and compare notes from.
2) Under the fence in 80 days
3) Brewers Bible with a few extra recipes sewn in to add flavour
4) What to do when there's nothing to do and nothing to do it with.
5) 2,000,000 humorous quotes and other assorted jokes. So RR would have something fun to read after I stole his well used and possibly tattered bible.
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The more you know of science and of religion the more they seem less mutually exclusive. Both attempt to explain the universe we live in and both frequently reach a point at which one must say I just do not know.
Neither wishes to admit that one often justifies the others existence.
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I live in Wisconsin, but occasionally do a ceremony in Illinois. I cannot find an easy resource on the web to determine what McHenry County requirements may be for an out-of-state minister. I contacted Lake County a couple years ago and the response was that you just had to have documentation of affiliation with a church recognized by the state. But this is my first McHenry County and unfortunately the ceremony I did yesterday was just inside McHenry County and not Lake County as I thought. Anyone have experience with McHenry County?
I would suggest calling them and asking... Chances are likely that they are the same as the other but... better to ask now than to have to deal with it later.
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It would be nice if they ever used attractive happy people to talk on camera.
Good grief don't people understand that the older you are the more a smile takes years off your face.
I knew a 72 year old that could pass for 45 and it was because she refused to frown unless she was 3 days exhausted. Her hands were wrinkled and she had the normal extra pounds that come with age; but her face was rarely in makeup and was that of a younger woman... She was very attractive for someone old enough to be my grandmother. It was also funny when she got carded for her senior citizen's discount only a couple months before she passed on. I think she got a kick out of it too except that she had to go out to the car to get her ID or the guy wouldn't give her her discount at the buffet.
People that want to convince everyone that a different way of living is OK or even Good should learn to at least look happy and smile. Remember God loves you.
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I bet it gets to be fun when your digging for it and everyone is starting to toss back dirt and crap out of frustration.
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this is a test and so is this.
Looks as if it works in firefox as well now.
Good job thanks
any word on what was causing that glitch?
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Salem there is little doubt about your gender; but thanks for pointing out yet another glitch. Hopefully they will fix them all.
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<br /><br /><br /><br />To anyone having this issue: Need to know what browser you are using, when you have this issue.<br /><br />ironically, on my work computer (IE6) it works just fine...but on my home computer (IE7) it doesn't work.<br /><br />Maybe I'm usin 8 at home. hmm.<br />IE 6 works well enough but with glitches.
Firefox 3.51 and newer betas does not work
Before Firefox 3.51 had issues but worked somewhat better.
I am guessing that the new forum is not IEEE w4 compliant in the fullest as of yet and will work much better on older browsers.
IE 8 glitches as well.
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I live in Arizona, Gilbert to be exact and it seems that when I went to my City Hall recently to try to register they didn't know anything about how to Register as an Ordained Minister. If someone has any information as to where I might need to go or what I need to do please e-mail me at: weavingdreams-at-cox.net
Please title your response as Registration for Ordained Minister in Arizona. Thank you. Sincerely, Eiledon
i wasn't aware arizona requried registeration.last i knew they didn't.unless it's a county requirement,which it doesn't sound like.
I was told that even though it isn't a requirement it was best to register. So of course I tried to register with my City Hall here in Gilbert and no one knows where or how I should register. If there is an answer as to how and where Please some one send me the info. Thank you Eiledon.
My guess is that if no one knows how or where, it's probably because there's no such thing as registering. Of course, I could very easily be wrong about that.
Look in the phone book for your county Clerk of Court Office. They should be able to supply info for you.
The simple answer is that there is no requirement and unless one county is different than the others (can happen) there is no method set up for registering as a minister in Arizona. If you wish to register your church/religious group and file for tax exemption that is a different function and they should be able to tell you what you need to do at the county clerks office. There will be more than one place to file papers but in general the clerks office is the place to start the process of legal research.
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hey I think I have more than 100 posts but when i signed up some time ago it seemed not to function. is the site still operational?
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The light at the end of the tunnel
began to grow smaller
with the smoke
obscuring it still.
And the spot of hope
flickered in the haze
the last of its light
blackened and gone.
And only then did I think
to walk frontward
to see
who was driving this train.
Prayer For Grandmum
in Good Wishes, Gratitude, Blessings and Prayers
Posted
One of my oldest and closest friend's mother (Audrey) is in the hospital after only a brief visit home following surgery. She was only home 8 hours before being rushed back to the emergency room. Her bladder had had cancer that they removed. She has been back in hosptial for 2 weeks without improvement and the family fels she may have given up. She is 20 years younger than the age her parents died at so had it not been for the cancer and surgery complications she should live for quite sometime to come. I would like prayers for Audrey to recover from these complications that are keeping her in the hospital for the last 2 weeks with out improvement; and prayers for the comfort of her family.
Thank you.