Dan52

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Posts posted by Dan52

  1. Fred Phelps Has Died.

    in * Welcome - ULC Minister's Introduction Junction *

    Posted

    If God is love then God is worth following but if God is going to condemn people despite their love on the basis of what is said in some questionable text then I do not call that love.

    God does not condemn people 'despite' their love, but in the absence of their love. If you do not love the biblical God, then you love a god of your own imagination, or another book. jmo

    And, of course, it is a popular religious trope that we can't really know God anyway.. because of the difference in scale, or righteousness or what ever.

    "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him" (John 14:7)

    Every time I open my eyes I see God

    Mirrors don't count :)

  3. Fred Phelps Has Died.

    in * Welcome - ULC Minister's Introduction Junction *

    Posted

    I would argue that the fairness of God in the Bible is also subject to interpretation if one wishes to take the Bible literally as it is written.

    Absolutely, there are many who read the bible and conclude that God is not fair. Everyone has their own idea of what's fair, but since all righteousness resides in God, his judgements surpass our standards. I personally don't understand some of Gods decisions, but its safe to say that God does not evaluate everything the same way we do; "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts" (Isaiah 55:8-9). So even when we can see no rhyme or reason for what God determines; "We know that all things work together for good to them that love God" (Romans 8:28). And I agree that the fairness of God can be misconstrued by any individual who wrongly interprets what's written.

  4. Fred Phelps Has Died.

    in * Welcome - ULC Minister's Introduction Junction *

    Posted

    One of the reasons I began questioning my evangelical Christian upbringing was the concept of Hell as it was taught by our church. It was said that one would burn forever in constant agony. When I thought about this as a teenager, I realized that no matter what someone did in one lifetime I could not sentence them to an eternity of agony with no hope of redemption once placed there. I have been fortunate enough to have known many compassionate individuals in my lifetime who likewise could not subject another to such torment. I realized that if mere humans were that compassionate, how could I follow a God (supposedly a Supreme Being) who was that much less compassionate than his creations. I am not a pacificist regarding war, and I would support the death penalty in some cases. However, the concept of an allegedly morally superior, enlightened entity sentencing someone to eternal suffering, sometimes for the most trivial of sins, is beyond me. That there is supposed to be a familial relationship (i.e., we are God's children, and he is our father) only magnifies this. I acknowledge that I am speaking only of the God of whom I was taught as a child. I understand there are many good Christians would not share the same view of the Biblical God or damnation, and I do not mean to lump all Christians in with those I experienced growing up. So if this characterizaion does not apply to your experience of Christianity, please understand I mean no offense :) .

    I'm a fundamentalist, but I believe your childhood church was incorrect. There is nothing in the bible that literally suggest that the lake of fire is a place where one would burn forever in constant agony. Rather, it is a place of spiritual death, meaning its eternal only in the sense that there's no coming back, its a permanent second death where you cease to exist for evermore.

    Also, God does not sentence people for trivial sins, Jesus covered our sins. God judges those who reject Christ and refuse to repent of their sins. All will be given an equal opportunity, God is fair.

  5. Fred Phelps Has Died.

    in * Welcome - ULC Minister's Introduction Junction *

    Posted

    There is a difference Dan. Getting no presents from Santa is not the same as telling them the will burn hell forever. There are many street preachers who many preach the message of you must be saved or you will burn in hell. Such messages have an affect on the vulnerable. I was brought up with the message that one cannot question this because one risks going to hell and not get salvation from it. I was well into adulthood before the questions got greater than the fear and even now I feel the guilt and fear. How loving is that to leave that childhood burden upon me and others.

    Its true, the bible clearly teaches that the unsaved will all perish. You may not like the message, you may question the message, or you might disregard the message, but it is biblical. "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28). How loving or responsible would it be not to tell someone about the possibility of spiritual death? I do agree that you shouldn't traumatize a child, but rather teach them that Christ is not a burden, but everlasting life. But as adults, a little fear never hurts, in fact it can be just the motivational factor needed to keep us out of trouble.

    What a poor and sick twisted individual one must be to only behave morally in life because of the promise of some future reward.

    Behaving morally is no guarantee of any reward.... If it is, I'm in some serious trouble. :)

  6. Fred Phelps Has Died.

    in * Welcome - ULC Minister's Introduction Junction *

    Posted

    I understand your perspective. I will stay with my own. That Hell is a scare tactic; designed to bring the Heathen into the fold and keep them there.

    I suspect most nonbelievers don't even believe that hell exist, so the lake of fire can't be a scare tactic to them anymore than heaven can be an incentive. The threat of hell doesn't frighten nonbelievers, and its not applicable to believers. Its like telling a child that if they're not good Santa won't bring them any presents. That threat is moot if the child doesn't believe in Santa.

  9. Loneliness Vs. Being Alone

    in Good Wishes, Gratitude, Blessings and Prayers

    Posted

    A man says to his psychiatrist, "Doc I have a problem. From the time I get up in the morning, my seven kids drive me nuts, we all share one bathroom, so I don't even get to shave alone. Then I car-pool to work where I'm surrounded by dozens of co-workers who drive me crazy all day. When I get home, between my wife and kids, I have no private time at all. Even on my days off, my wife insist on inviting friends and family over every weekend. I never have a minute of free time for myself or a moment of solitude. Can you help me?

    The psychiatrist says, "So what exactly is your problem?"

    Man says, "Haven't you been listening doc? I'M SO FREAKING LONELY"

    Loneliness can be an empty soul void of purpose. "He hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee" (Hebrews 13:5). In that sense, I've never been alone.

  11. Reality Tv

    in Stories & Texts Archive

    Posted · Edited by Dan52

    Phil's, and many conservative Christian right, are of the opinion that only their opinion matters. They believe they are right because a bronze age book says they are, they are right because they have a sanctuary full of like minded people supporting their view, they are right because they have the Constitutional right to believe whatever they wish.....then they say they are being persecuted because the rest of us want them to shut up and keep it to themselves. They can't have it both ways, nor can I, but the difference is....I don't expect to have it both ways.

    Well, I didn't get the sense that Robertson was forcing his views on anyone. It was the GQ writer Drew Magary who brought the subject up and asked, "What, in your mind is sinful?". That's when Robertson paraphrased those verses which list various sins; drunkenness, adultery, greed, idolatry, homosexuality, slanderers, swindlers, thieves, etc. So imo, he wasn't force feeding his beliefs down the throats of others, he was just answering a simple question. While I agree that there are radical Christian groups like Westboro who cross the line, the majority of Christians don't. But when asked a direct question like Robertson was, most in the faith would feel obligated to give an honest answer, because Jesus said; "whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 10:33).

  13. Reality Tv

    in Stories & Texts Archive

    Posted

    I really don't want to have to get into another long discussion about what or why I think something. I made an honest, face value statement,Dan.

    I'm not politely saying anything other than what I said...heck I even know ignorant and stupid Pagans, Heathens and Satanist who want all Christians to bow to one power or another or suffer the fate of those before them in history. I don't think Christians should be stuffed in the giant metal cow sculpture and roasted alive anymore than pagans should suffer at the hands of Christians over their personal Beliefs That is completely unacceptable to me.

    To me, a "smart" anybody is someone who lets others live and let live about such personal opinion and preference things as sexual orientation or religious beliefs. Being bigoted and homophobic isn't very smart. Those who claim to believe one way and act another are ignorant, if not downright dangerous, and are not very smart.

    Blessings of Peace,

    My point was that Robertson was asked a question and he responded by paraphrasing 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10. His answer was what he believed to be true. He did not personally condemn anyone. Imo, the bigots are those who insist on Robertson accepting what they believe, its that old adage; "adopt our standards and abandon yours", otherwise you'll suffer the repercussions and we'll stick the bigot label on you. Having a fear or contempt for gays is the definition of homophobic, and Robertson expressed neither. He simply stated his belief that it was wrong, and that's no different than those who believe its right. Neither belief/opinion is stupid or ignorant.

  15. On Top Of Other Sad News Today...

    in Good Wishes, Gratitude, Blessings and Prayers

    Posted

    Mom is a devout Evangelical Christian and has repeatedly said she is not "fearful" of her passing. Her faith has been a steady companion to her throughout her long life. On Christmas she said she was 'eager' to go meet up with my Dad as she missed him so much here. Dad passed Dec 27, 2008.

    UPDATE: Mom came home the other day and seems to be doing okay. She is of course happy for the change of settings and glad to be back in her chair, bed, refrig etc. She sends a "Thank you" to all who sent best wishes.

    After reading your initial post, I just prayed that if it be the Fathers will, that she might continue living. I had a very sick aunt who was suffering with cancer a while back, and when I went to see her, I told her that I had prayed for her to live. She said, "Well damn it, stop that!" :)

    Anyway, glad your Mom is hanging tough and is back home.

  17. I Pray

    in Good Wishes, Gratitude, Blessings and Prayers

    Posted

    I also pray for quidance because my bro is trying to steal something from an old friend i pray for knowledge to know rather i should tell friend or not

    Wouldn't it be nice if we could all do the right thing without any guidance? Warn your friend and give your bro a lecture :) JMO

    My mother is also in bad shape... I was going to pray for God to let her live a lot longer, but then left it to God to take her or heal her. If I ever get to a point where my health is gone, I'm depressed and suffering, I hope no one ask God to make me live a long time like that. I'm sure everyone here would comply with my request, even if I'm healthy and happy :)

  19. Pants Low

    in Stories & Texts Archive

    Posted · Edited by Dan52

    It really bothers me sometime that we judge people . I just read on a social website about a sign that shows a boy w his pants low ( under his butt cheeks) and it said pull your pants up on the sign . I almost threw a fit when i seen that .

    When I was a boy, my mother would have slapped me upside the head if I walked around with my butt cheeks outside my pants. What bothers me is that we need signs to uphold a degree of public decency. It seems pretty presumptuous for a guy to think that everyone else enjoys looking at his butt hanging out of his pants. On the other hand, I've never had a problem with a foxy chick's butt hanging out of short shorts :)

  20. Who Controls The Weather?

    in * Welcome - ULC Minister's Introduction Junction *

    Posted · Edited by Dan52

    Well, no. You take it for granted that the Biblical account is accurate. I don't. And without that faith-based lens to look through, I see no compelling evidence that King David was anything more than a myth. So "we" know no such thing. It is, of course, possible that you simply know something that I do not. It is also completely possible, however, that you believe things that are not true and mistake that for knowledge. It would be nice if there was a way to prove conclusively which was the case, but life never seems to be that easy. :umnik:

    I believe the bible, so I discuss it with the presumption of it being true. When I state things like "we know that Israel and David did sin", I am referencing what's known from what's written. Of course, from the perspective of a nonbeliever such as yourself, nothing can be known because there's no evidence to substantiate it. But just to clarify, I was speaking in the context of what we know 2 Samuel 24 says, and not contending that any belief is factually known.

    By the way, you wrote; "I see no compelling evidence that King David was anything more than a myth. So "we" know no such thing". What compelling evidence do you have that King David was a myth?

  23. Ulc Forum: Members, Friends, Or Customers?

    in * Welcome - ULC Minister's Introduction Junction *

    Posted

    I actually think this is a very tame forum, to the point of being boring sometimes. Considering that everyone believes something different, its amazing how civilized the bulk of the members are. Compared to some of the Yahoo discussion groups where rules are essentially nonexistent, ULC is a pretty friendly place. I belong to a Christianity Board, and it gets more heated than anything I've seen here, despite everyone having a common denominator that should unite all the members. So its unavoidable that others will take some offense when you disagree with them, the super-sensitive will resent your opinion, feel offended, and get defensive. Members can only try to state their opinions diplomatically, and moderators can only try to keep the conversations non-abusive and semi-civilized; no personal attacks, name calling, etc. Politics and religion have always been contentious subjects, so to expect sunshine and roses while discussing these topics is an unrealistic expectation, a degree of conflict is inevitable...If only everyone had my carefree disposition :)

  24. I Am A Hindu

    in Eastern Religions & Philosophies

    Posted

    I am in the middle of the Punjab and God didn`t create me a Hindu--how was I free to choose??? I there will be a new age where I will be judged where am I till then? If God is fair--why am I not like all the others? I thought that God denies no one if one love`s him and lives a sinless life. I agree--once you have a choice, then you can choose to follow whatever faith you believe.

    Well, I guess we can't control where we're born or the dominant influences around us, but you seem to have access to more information than what's in your immediate surroundings now, and that presents choices. Your correct from a Christian perspective, God denies no one eternal life if they believe and accept him (John 3:16), and you don't even need to live a sinless life. I didn't even know that was possible? :)

    Christianity does not have a monopoly, on the truth. The key factor for salvation is all about `the Holy Spirit`--and that does not belong to Christians only--that works within each heart, and is power of GOD--is GOD. However, if one is a Christian Jesus is the point of salvation according to the `faith`--for others is what lies in the heart, the Holy Spirit.

    Well, being a monotheist Christian, I believe Christ is the only Truth (John 14:6). I also believe the Holy Spirit was sent by Christ, he described it as the 'Comforter', the Spirit of truth (John 15:26). You are correct though, there are many other spirits that others prefer, but being a one-dimensional thinking fundamentalist, I believe there's only one Holy Spirit.

  25. I Am A Hindu

    in Eastern Religions & Philosophies

    Posted

    I know that there is a thread going about part of my question, that is getting rather Biblical--but I have a question to everybody, but most of all to Christians and to those of the Jewish faith.

    I am a Hindu living in the Punjab before British colonization--my faith is based on the Bhagavad Gita. I live the `golden rule` and all that is needed of my faith. Same goes for my counterparts in Africa, in South America and in various parts of the world--we have never heard of Christianity--we live a pure, good life-do no harm, love one an other...when we die we get thrown into `the lake of fire`. Why? Are people in the modern world saved only because they hear of Christianity--how about all countless millions before? Especially when Christianity dosn`t believe in re-incarnation. What was the purpose of all that--a practice run for God? Is God so small minded as to exclude some?

    Why does the Christian God have favourites? Why does God hate me--personally?--If God does, why did he create me a Hindu? It wasn`t my choice. Are the people of Jewish faith also lost?--aren`t they the chosen ones?--they do not believe in Jesus, at this point. They are still waiting.

    Please if I could have an answer--but not Bible quotes--for I have no idea about that and have never read it.

    People are saved by hearing the gospel and believing in Christ, that's the Christian faith. Without quoting the bible, everyone will have an opportunity to accept Christ. Those who don't have an opportunity to hear or learn of Him while in the flesh, will have an opportunity to accept Christ in the millennium (Revelation 20), which is a thousand year period set-aside for that purpose. After Christ was crucified, he went and preached to all the people who had previously died in sin (1 Peter 3:19), so everyone from the beginning had the same opportunity to accept his saving grace as we do today. God is fair, He excludes no one. God doesn't hate you, He simply loves those who love him and denies those who deny him. The golden rule is biblical, but Christians don't believe that good conduct alone can save a person, we all fall short of the glory of God and need to accept atonement for our sins, which is Christ. I don't believe God created anyone a Hindu, Muslim, or Christian, but that we are all free to think, choose, and accept what we decide is true. That's just my opinion and the basic fundamentalist pov.

    Boy, I'm sure not holding to my "post less often" plan :)