Jonathan H. B. Lobl

Just this once, Dan is right. The Gospels are the best evidence for themselves. Actually, the only evidence for themselves. Have you seen any other? Neither have I.

Nice try. It's Dan. Reality just bounces off his umbrella of Faith.

I think that you are over thinking this. Making it more complicated than it is. I use vegetarianism as a template for Atheism. What do we know about vegetarians? Only one thing. There is no meat on their plates. There are many different styles of being vegetarian. What any individual vegetarian eats, is highly individual. Assumptions are likely to be mistaken. What do we know about Atheists? Only that they are without Theism. This and nothing more. Some have philosophy. Others don't. Some are materialists. Others are not. We know nothing about any individual Atheist. Except one detail. We know what is not on their plate of spiritual nourishment. There is no god there. We do know something else. People have all manner of emotional baggage. There are a lot of non-vegetarians, who have a burning, passionate hatred, for vegetarians. They take being vegetarian as a personal rejection of themselves. There are also vegetarians who insist on trying to make the whole world vegetarian. You know. People have issues. If nobody ate meat, there wouldn't even be a word for vegetarianism. Conflicts arise over difference. The more we try to eliminate difference, the worse it gets. In the end, we have to live with each other.

Yes. I expect that is true.

With that one simple statement, you dismiss all other religions. No complications. No explanations. You don't find them believable. That is how I find your religion. Not believable. The rest is mere detail. Have a blessed day.

This is not a science board. I'm not interested in arguing about Big Bang theory or Evolution theory. Neither has a place here. Both subjects, on a religion board, are nothing more than distractions. For all that, your point is simple. You regard science as competition for Genesis. Guess what? I don't need science to disprove Genesis. You need to prove that Genesis is true. Even if you could prove that a god created the Universe -- it would still not be proof of your God. Even if you could prove that a god was responsible for Intelligent Design -- it would still not be proof of your God. You are attempting a false binary. This is not science versus God. This is empty assertions about God -- and Genesis -- with nothing to back them up. Belief and Faith are not evidence. Scripture is not evidence. You have ignored my post on that point. (In this thread. Just a few inches back.) If Faith and Belief and Scripture were proof -- then you would have to recognize the validity of Islam, the Hindu religion, Mormonism, Christian Science -- and many others. All of which you have no difficulty in denying. I have simply gone one step further. It is your religion that I also don't accept. For lack of objective, verifiable facts. You simply go off on the subject of faith. The followers of the other religions, also have faith. Have a blessed day.

In a world where nobody ate meat, there wouldn't be a word for vegetarian. Atheists exist, because the believers forced us into existence.

I am late to the party. I just found this thread. People have some claim to respect. Not ideas. There is no way that I am going to respect Flat Earthism. Civility is good. Respect only works if it's mutual. When the pious don't respect Atheists -- the Atheists are under no obligation to respect them. My mistake. I simply forgot this old thread.

I have had a few days to contemplate your deep wisdom. You have no evidence that the Gospels are true. Still, you believe. Why? Because you have faith. Somehow, your faith makes them true. Because you believe. Following that same logic -- Many Muslims believe that the Koran is true. Because they have faith. That makes Islam a true religion. Because they believe. Many Hindus believe that their Scriptures are true. Because they have faith. That makes the Hindu religion, a true religion. Because they believe. Many Mormons believe that the Book of Mormon is true. Because they have faith. That makes the Mormon religion, a true religion. Because they believe. Do you ever wonder if the Muslim religion, the Hindu religion or the Mormon religion might be true? I don't. Then again, I don't regard the belief or faith of others to be proof of anything. What's your excuse to be a non-believer?

You keep insisting that you know what I believe. You insist in putting this into your own terms. How tedious. I'm bored.

1. I'd disagree, belief changes the believer.. It can alter your behavior, improve your character, create a positive demeanor, attitude, and aptitude. This is an argument of utility. We should believe -- not because it is true -- but because it is useful. 2. so how can confirmation of that be construed as threatening? If only your mind were capable of distinctions. One more time. The threat of damnation does not frighten me. It does irritate me.

Yes.

Tedious. All right. If you insist. The difference is belief. Belief changes nothing. Wanting changes nothing. Need changes nothing. That's how Christians perceive the bible. Perception changes nothing. The big difference is that Christ is not dead, and belief in his existence will change everything for everyone. Empty assertions. Assertions made without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence. And of course, non-belief has consequences, which brings us back to the topic of this thread. Consequences? Another threat. This time from you. How shameful. Also, futile. Facts don't disprove a faith, and without facts to disprove what I believe, they can't very well "bounce off" my faith.. 1. I thought that you would recognize the Bible symbolism. I was referencing the "Armor of God" which is protecting your mind from external reality. Yes. Facts do bounce off you. By your intention. By Scriptural Command. 2. You don't care about facts. 3. I am not concerned with changing your beliefs. . Without faith, life is void of meaning It is your life, which lacks meaning without faith. Don't project onto others. Perhaps if y'all spent as much time trying to understand rather than disprove the bible, you wouldn't have such defiant attitudes? Defiant Attitude? Defiant Attitude? Defiant Attitude? I needed a good laugh. so belief replaces "I don't know" with the faith An honest, I don't know is worth a lot more than fantasy. Faith is strong opinion. Nothing more.

Just so. Facts bounce off faith, like rain bounces off an umbrella.

Written Record? The Bible? Long after my death -- when everybody who knew me is dead -- and everybody who knew them is dead -- belief in my existence will have no consequences. Belief in my existence won't change anything for anybody. Just like belief in Jesus. You might enjoy reading the Bhagavad Gita. It's a Hindu text about the Life of Krishna. One of the Vedic deities, who manifested on Earth, in human form. It's an interesting story that many believe to be literal truth. After all, what would be the motivation, in making it up? There is also the Koran -- which has many wonderful stories about the Prophet Mohammed. Doubting the truth of these stories makes a lot of people angry. People die for doubting them. My personal favorites are the stories of the Norse gods. Many interesting characters, with good plot twists. All believed by many, to be literal. Who would make that stuff up?

Curiosity compels. In this miasma of fraud and fiction -- why do you think that Paul was real? Or any of the disciples? Which ones? Do you know of any actual evidence, for any of it? When the obvious lies and deceptions are so thick; I have difficulty believing any of it.

Of course. No evidence for Jesus. No evidence for the disciples. All faith and fraud.

All based on -- what? Faith. Of course, all the other religions lack proof.

You know. The ultimate evidence. On the down low.

Uh-huh

You're talking to Dan. The man who makes no distinctions. He can not distinguish between personal faith and objective reality. What you ask exceeds his ability. He can't do it.

Why stop with back pain? Neck; shoulder; wrists; knees; ankles -- it all has braces and supports. The perfect mind did a crap job.

In John, Jesus says that all who believe -- will do greater works. So said Jesus. John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Dan has been clear. He insists that it's all true.

If you insist on bringing reality into this -- most of the Jews did not follow Jesus. Not then. Not now. Maybe they got it right?