Jonathan H. B. Lobl

A minor detail. There are other Holy Books, "inspired" by God and written by people -- all claiming to be "The Word". ,Since God has neither produced one set directly, nor destroyed the others; I can find no reason to favor one Book over another. They are all equally suspect. Also, if the assertion in Romans is true, that the Word is already on my Heart -- I should not need any of them. I look upon the world that exists. Not the world I want, but the world that looks back at me. What do I see? Many religions, each with many sub-divisions. This is what I would expect to see if God were a fantasy. What would the world look like if God were real? There would be one undivided religion. If there were a church, there would be one church and it would be free of scandal. At minimum -- one set of Books. One perfect set without errors of any kind. Or internal conflict. Free of fraud or tampering. Easily understood without studies in ancient language or history. Indestructible by fire or decay, with the originals available for comparison. Too much for Human authors. Nothing for the perfect God. Of course, if we have a trickster God, who wants to play hide and seek with it's Creation -- who wants to see a demonstration of "faith" without proof -- who gives us a young world that is designed to look old and deceive -- then God can take the consequences. The more so, if God uses Human scribes -- all imperfect -- and tolerates many books from many religions. And the task of creating "The Word" is described as mediocre? Something that God can't be bothered with taking care of? A side note. I have read the Bible more than I have read the other Books. The cruelty and sadism of God. The treatment of women and gay people. Etc. etc. This more than anything else is what destroyed my faith. I don't think that the perfect Book would have that effect.

God couldn't be bothered?

A mediocre task? The inerrant Word? A mediocre task?

My point exactly. God created the entire Universe and everything in it. God then needs help with a book? With THE BOOK? Why does God need Scribes? Or printing presses? Or anything else? How strange, that God can't make anything, that people can make. Do you know how silly that sounds?

I'm going to have to think about that. I've thought about it. No.

It still leaves unanswered, the basic question. Why does God need Scribes?

The salvation of billions, does not rest on the color of your house. More important matters, require better evidence of a more substantial nature. It is sad, that the color of your house, has much better evidence than inerrant Scripture.

In the Taoist world, there is considerable disagreement as to whether or not Lao Tzu; the alleged author of the Tao Te Jing, ever existed or not. There is little to no evidence for a historic Lao Tzu; and the name Lao Tzu translates as "Old Master or "Old Sage". It doesn't matter to Taoists, because what is important to them, is the ideas of Taoism. Not the source of those ideas. Would Christians, in a similar way, be satisfied with the ideas of Jesus; without a risen Christ? Some would. At least some of the Unitarian Universalists do take that view. For the majority of Christians, I think this would not be at all acceptable. For the majority of Christians, their faith requires a grounding in a historic Jesus, who became the risen Christ. For those who are satisfied with a Human Jesus, there is philosophy and ideas. The actual source of those ideas, rooted in one historic person, is not a hot issue. The majority of Christians, require theology and faith. Without a historic risen Christ, they have nothing. IMO 1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations 1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

In the case of Socrates and Plato; what mattered was their ideas. Living people are not trying to forge personal relationships with them. Doctrines of personal salvation are not involved. No one is claiming that they were divinity. Rejecting them does not result in Damnation.

History and Scripture are filled with horror and atrocity. I'm hesitant to pick out one example as worst. That is all I meant.

Not really. In my opinion, there's much worse in Scripture. There is also worse throughout history. Sure it's bad. Not the worst.

Of course. The perfect text has become imperfect. Not that there is any reason, to think it was ever perfect -- or true.

Yes. Just so.

That is exactly how I look at Nativity scenes, on Public land. An annoyance by a large group of n'er-do-wells.

Yes, to everything you just said.

The first symbol is an attack. The second symbol is a response to that attack. Still confused?

This much is clear. Since Fundamentalists speak for God -- and act for God -- any limits on their speech or actions are an attack on God. It follows that we must me motivated by opposition to God. That is what Dan keeps telling us. This is why. Of course, that makes for some silly questions. 1, How we can hate the God, that we don't believe in. 2. What kind of weak, pathetic God, needs someone like Dan to defend it, from us.

Maybe God has poor penmanship skills.

Why does God need Human scribes?

You still don't get the concept of reaction. You force your crap into Public Space -- others will balance the scales. One good pelvic thrust deserves another.

Finally. An honest response from you. Fundamentalist Christians force their crap into public spaces -- because they can. That is the extent of your explanation. You have the numbers. You have the power. The rest of us can suck it. Things change. When your group is no longer on top, you may have a fresh perspective on minority rights.

It's an odd thing. God can speak the entire Universe into existence -- but needs Human scribes to publish The Book. Or -- The Books. Why is it, that God can't create anything, that Humans can create? God can create a tree, but not a book? A genetic code -- but not a book? Why, when Human scribes do produce The BOOK, for God, does it fall into decay or burn? Why is the content of that Book, limited to the information and misinformation of that day? It's almost as though God had nothing to do with it. Why are the original versions lost to us? Why are there copy and translation errors? The All Powerful seems to be having a bad day.

Since my meaning was lost on you, I will rephrase. "Well? Why must Christian Fundamentalist bullies, force their stuff onto Public Space?"