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  1. Today
  2. You wrote "It hurts too much" and I replied that "It shouldn't hurt".......... I just assumed the pain you were experiencing was in regards to not being able to convince me that God does not exist? And that's why you wrote "I give up"... That's why I responded by saying that your under no obligation to convince me of anything. You've gotten irritated and frustrated before, so I assumed you felt like you failed your mission and surrendered (again). My simple point was that believers aren't convince by non-believers and non-believers aren't convinced by believers, so its not a battle for either side to persuade someone that their position is correct. An argument is a disagreement, two points of views that can't be reconciled. I defined it as silly because there's no resolution to me believing in something that you guys don't. My additional comment was just explaining why belief isn't based on direct evidence, but in a desire to accept a message that appeals to you and rings true. That's not an argument, just my definition of faith.
  3. Yesterday
  4. Can you define argument? It's classically meant as a person's point in a debate, so when you say that the argument is getting silly, I responded by saying it takes two...unless you want to play the unwitting participant. But you complained about the silly argument...then kept going. I think that is silly as well. Or do you need to have the last word in a silly debate?
  5. Not really an argument as much as it is people just saying what they think.. I just say what and why I believe as I do, but never anticipate a consensus to validate it.. I'm fully aware that you guys find it difficult to believe anything that you can't get direct confirmation of, but unfortunately "beliefs" don't afford us that kind of direct evidence. I want to believe, and am convince its true. You want to know, but are convinced of nothing. That's why we are called by faith, you can accept a message you love, but are non-receptive of a message you hate. Don't be too hard on yourself.. It shouldn't "hurt" to hear views you disagree with. Your not obligated to convince anyone of anything, so don't get irritated and turn yourself into an emotional wreck over it.
  6. I give up. I'm throwing in the towel. It hurts too much. 🏳️
  7. Takes at least two to keep an argument going, Dan...
  8. Yeah, that's what the other 583977620342725087397763461253743 religions say too... Even if we narrow it down to Christianity; which 1 is right? Danism?!?
  9. And capitalism was invented when the first wiseass put a fence around a piece of land and proclaimed it his... and the fools that believed him. 😁
  10. The odds of me being right are 100%, my opinion of course.. The odds of all other religions being wrong are 100%, my opinion of course. When you believe God is real, its not a waste of life, its an assurance of everlasting life.. And its true scriptures are ancient, but I've read what those authors wrote and I've read what you've written, and I can attest to the fact that the biblical authors knew more than you or I do, my opinion of course. We agree with being surrounded by lies, deception, and corruption, but it wasn't Christ who lied, deceived, or corrupted. "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not" (John 8:44&45), his proclamation of course. When confronted by a Savior, it is good to look behind the tombstone, and if there's nothing there, he's a genuine Savior.. That pretty much dispels the Atheist argument, my opinion of course. And I agree, "Thou shall not steal" is a moral attribute that helps encourage people from stealing silverware These arguments are getting silly again, they resolve nothing, we're still left with: To believe or not to believe, that is the question
  11. Last week
  12. We can also go with Voltaire. "The purpose of religion, is to keep the servants from stealing the silverware."
  13. Samuel Clemens said it best for me. "religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool".
  14. Its not that i like or dislike the message,part is good and part is bad. Its simply that i dont believe it, much like you don't believe greek mythology. I view it in the same light. I thought zeus was a villain, much the same as i view the chrisrian god...but i view both as fictional villains.
  15. Dan's religion is one of many. What are the odds that Dan has the right religion -- and all the other religions are wrong? They can't all be right. They can all be wrong. Do I really want to waste the only life that I can be sure of? On my knees, praying to an improbable God? Studying ancient Scriptures, produced by people, who knew way less than I do? We are indeed surrounded by lies, deception and corruption. Including pious fraud and fantasy. That is why evidence is so important. Or we become ready victim, to every fraud, huckster, cheat, scam artist and humbug, to come along. When confronted by a wizard, it is good to look behind the curtain. Sometimes, it's just a humbug. Or a sincere believer, who swallowed it all. Hook, line and sinker.
  16. No problem, I understand your reluctance to believe anything that can't be proven. Its not easy to trust a 2000 year old book, especially when you don't like the message. But my point was that a spiritual truth can't be proven by physical or material evidence, so a black & white matter-of-fact mindset can't accept it. Its difficult to intellectually rationalize God, but we can't have faith in anything not seen until we first surrender to what we think we know, which is really nothing. We live in a world of lies, deception, and corruption, so its difficult for anyone to believe anything they hear or read. That's why Christians take solace in a Truth beyond the reality of what is evident. If Dan is wrong, he's no worse off than you.. But consider if Dan is right? Nothing but up-side for the guy who for some reason is referring to himself in the third person. There's no penalty for believing, just a promised reward.. The real question is; Where's the potential reward for having faith in nothing beyond the here & now? Where's the hope? I simply believe that everyone has/is a spirit, possessing a self-aware consciousness that doesn't die with the body. And I believe everyone has an unction from the Holy Spirit which prompts a yearning to know and return to the Spirit that created us. Its why we search for answers, but there's just one "quickening spirit" that soothes the soul.
  17. A thought experiment. Consider Dan's perspective. Suppose Dan's faith -- his seamless faith -- were to fail him. What would happen next? Dan would face the big B-B-Q along with us. No more cotton candy Heaven. Just -- dead. Maybe even getting left behind in the Rapture. Even worse. Facing down all those lectures he gave about faith and trust. What are facts or reason, next to that level of terror?
  18. I don't believe your Bible so scripture about how to discern spirit in an effort to prove scripture true is logically failed... and ultimately circular. I respect your right to believe, but I don't.
  19. The bible encourages believers to spread the Word (gospel), but not to convince non-believers. There's no flaw, just a difference in how a person thinks God is perceived, "These things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God" (2 Corinthians 2:10). So putting God on trial to prove Himself is not how people find the Truth. Searching for physical evidence can never establish a spiritual truth, its like trying to prove water is wet without having ever seen water. A prophecy simply tells a future occurrence, and when its fulfilled as written, its a true prophecy. A nonbeliever can't accept a fulfilled prophecy about Christ because they don't believe Christ was real either. So there's no debate to be had when the premise is denied, all the evidence in the world would not suffice. Belief is an individual choice based on a need, desire, and quest to know, but without those inherent attributes, there's no convincing anyone of anything. Sorry, but Fundamentalist Christians believe there is one Truth, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life" (John 14:6). Its scripture not propaganda, and the sole arbiter of truth is Christ. I wouldn't be much of a Christian if I waivered from that belief. I understand this may be irritating to nonbelievers, but its the faith. I don't believe you can hate what you don't believe, but you can evidently get bored hearing about it.
  20. I will speak more plainly. I'm bored with Fundamentalist BS propaganda. These smug, condescending claims, to be the sole arbiters of truth and fact, are irritating. This is usually where you tell me that I hate God. Or Christianity. Or Scripture.
  21. There is the flaw. Christians argue the authenticity of the Bible. I don't believe your argument. It's not up to me to convince you, it's up to you to convince me...if you want me to believe. And your Bible commands you to convince non-believers. I don't have any such command. And I don't believe your prophecy is real.
  22. Exodus and Passover https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-exodus-effect/?utm_source=mjl_maropost&utm_campaign=MJL&utm_medium=email&mpweb=1161-10420-232960
  23. It doesn't need to name him, who else on earth did what he did? Sometimes the reader needs to put 2 +2 together Actually, there was a complete Isaiah scroll recovered from the Dead Sea find, and it predated Christ by 200 years. Attitude in how one approaches scripture makes a difference. "God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble." (James 4:6). Demanding God prove himself is not how one receives a revelation. Jesus told many that he healed, "Thy faith has made the whole", and not 'your knowledge has made you whole'. Its been my experience that you can't read the bible like a story book or comic book and expect to digest its divine truth. "Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes" (Matthew 11:25). In other words, when the Word is accepted by faith, its a quickening spirit that opens its Truth, but when every verse is questioned, its only challenged and not absorbed. "Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not?" (Mark 8:18). The bible is also Christian scripture, remember that the new testament was written by Jews and a Benjamite. We also follow a Jewish/Levitical leader who declared himself the living fulfillment of those Jewish scriptures. So in effect, Christians were taught by a Jewish teacher (Rabbi) who was quite familiar with all scripture. That's why Christians never get bored in discovering what the scriptures mean.
  24. Just so. "Wars and rumors of war" with fires and floods.
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