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  2. True, but it ain't just them. It shows how religion can get people to accept the unacceptable. It creates a silence where anger should shown.
  3. The sins of the Catholic Church are difficult to list, both for quantity and depth of horror. Also, for variety. Child rape, slavery, torture, antisemitism, religious warfare, genocide, crimes against gay people, forced conversions, the Spanish Inquisition, Counter Reformations, witch trials with torture, mass murder; atrocity in Mexico, Central and South America; Crusades; the Albigensian Heresy -- where do you want to go with this? The rot is deep. If we start, it will be difficult to stop.
  4. Today
  5. Yes the abuse was world wide and they covered it up was terrible. All hiding behind a belief that ministers/church employees were trustworthy and honest. It's that not being able to question for fear they are sinning some how.
  6. Well, even if the quote is true; nowhere does it mention the unconditional acceptance of the talmud or the bible as 100% truth. I can relate to it, there is a lot of interesting and meaningful things in there (hey, even a lot for Grimm's fairy tales have a lot of learning points which can be instructional...) Oh, yeah! Speaking of:
  7. You're welcome. And I thank you for your views on the subject. Helps put things in perspective (as often)...
  8. Yesterday
  9. I always say the church showed us Hell and killed many doing it. The Church of England (not the only church) often prays for the royal family. I discovered in some larger cathedrals they used to have torture chambers to enforce their will. Most likely tortured Jews and others who they called heretics but most likely just disagreed with them. I fear missionaries went to other countries and taught old school religion but forgot to ask them to question it. Totally brutal. Some ministers want their authority returned. I say look at what happened in Ireland and children's homes and schools in both countries.
  10. Then again, on balance, America has more piety. The grass is always greener, in someone else's Hell. Neither of us lives in -- say Uganda -- where the crazies beat children to death, in exorcisms. There was a time, when Christianity was firmly in control of everything. We call it, the Dark Ages.
  11. I hear that loud and clear. Of course, it's deeper. One of the Queen's titles is, Defender of the Faith. Alas, it comes with having a national church. In your place, I would also not be thrilled, with having Bishops in the government.
  12. Same here. Our national anthem " is unprovable diety bless a royal leader I do not believe in". Nothing about us plebs. I am not a royalist.
  13. "Let us pray" assumes consent. More, it is a command. In a church, this is reasonable. In a secular setting -- like a government function -- or a graduation -- it is a violation of integrity. Such violation comes in different forms. For me, the most hateful, that come to mind, is turning the Pledge of Allegiance into a prayer. I think the switch over in National Motto to, One Nation Under God, comes in a close second. It is a forced seizure of secular space.
  14. That's cool... I once felt the same way as you do, so I completely understand that what floats my boat doesn't ring true for others.
  15. There are also strokes. Letting go the past, a catalyst to change and a social medium in a controlled environment. Some fear social events unless the expectations are pre planned in advance or it has boundaries on what to expect. Others need it because it maybe all that holds them together in what can be a cruel world. It can be the opiate of the people and I believe that is why nations bring it into their institutions. Also opiates can be soothing providing you have safe guards. There use in surgery is essential.
  16. Talking to an invisible friend? It's a reversion to childhood and an impediment to emotional development.
  17. It's so much more basic. As in -- I'm weak and pitiful and pathetic and flawed and sinful and shameful -- because Adam and Eve ate the fruit in the Garden of Eden. Now, I'm in a Fallen State. Worse, I must beg the Righteous God to save me, because on my own merit, I can't possibly earn salvation. I'm way to disgusting, even to be in God's Holy presence. It must be a gift, because I am so pathetic and unworthy. The basic proposition, could not possibly be more insulting, more demeaning or more disempowering. Add a few layers of crap. What happens when God forgives me? What happens if I lose that forgiveness? Classic drug addiction. Emotional highs, followed by devastating lows.
  18. I remember a tutor saying "let us pray" is an invitation to self hypnosis as it makes a person pliable as they switch off and go to an abiance state for the minister to mold.
  19. The question I ask is not what is a persons religion but what does that religion serve cognitively in that person.
  20. Since you asked -- I think that God belief is an addictive, feel good, emotional drug. The religious are addicts -- and the churches are drug pushers. Since you asked. I'm in a mood to speak bluntly and to the point. To specifics. You speak of Transference objects. What is prayer, but talking to an imaginary friend? Clearly, a regression to early childhood. Also, a substitute for real friends.
  21. So maybe a denial of responsibility by seperating themselves from their actions? A god forgave me so it's not for anyone else to poke beyond that. I know religion often allows a person to move on from previous behaviours. That can be positive or negative if they deny that they ever had responsibility or as you say blame it on a devil or god.
  22. I don't know for every religious person, but many i have met and spoken with seem to use religion to abdicate responsibility in one way or another. They say, 'god has a plan'. If true, who could possibly go against such a beings will? Or the devil made me do it...i mean, really? Very few religious people I've spoken to accept their actions as truly theirs. This isnt exclusive to christians, btw, or even monotheists.
  23. I guess to start this out..... is a passage that apply's to my life....its been with me since I was a kid....it was an additive that fueled my divorce....its when Im forced to go into a court room....my religious beliefs are all about this passage........1 Corinthians Chapter 6.... 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies .....So...if you think about this....As a Christian....one that believes in God.....this is all about you......God gives you... a statue of you...and you stare at......like I do evryday.....it keeps things real.....This about life.....this is all about who you are....you clean and polish this statue of you.....you become attached.... to you....as a Christian you feel obligated to maintain.... this statue of you......but not all ways....sometimes......life draws your focus away from who you are.....the statue of you begins to attract creeping vines ....that climb all over it.....tall grass.... begins to hide your visage....and soon....you forget who you are.......This is what the Bible is....Its about man....its about God.....God requires your obedience....its not something you have to do.....but this statue of you begins to weather and age....Sin erodes the foundation.....it falls into disrepair.....but.....its not like God hasnt given you any tools to repair and restore.... this statue of you.....Thats what the Bible is....its a repair manual.....Virtues.... like peace....and love.....kindness.....and understanding....polish its exterior.......keeping the rust from spreading.......This is not something..... that is not just words im trying to convey....this is real......You have chains and manacles on your legs....and you have no clue they exist....but they do.....The earth is a prison......and your not getting off this planet alive or dead......Oh .....but there is a way.....Its the gift of God.....a free gift.....he dosnt ask for anything.....you cant take it back to the store and exchange it.....it dosnt have any rules or requirements.....just believe....really simple.....right.....you dont have to tell your wife......just believe....thats all.......as Ive said....the world is a prison....it is owned and operated by Satan Inc.....he tried to give it to Christ....but as Scripture points out....for a Christian....this is not our Home....Sin and mankinds imperfections and freewill have destroyed what God created.....For Christians.....our home is forever....and eternal.....and with God.....As sin rises in the earth....as people make sinful choices to govern there lives.....Christians have been forced to accept American social evils....but to what extent you allow its evil to push forward.....God gives us an upgrade......Ephesians 6........ 10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh [fn] and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. 14 Stand firm therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 in [fn] addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.......So its back to the statue of you.....in our lifetime....your going to need evrything possible to shore up....This statue of you... .....This statue of you....in our lifetime....God provides you with Armour....so put it on.....you want to know why the world has problems.....there is a stark contrast ....between when God was needed....which was present with the pioneers at the expansion of America in the 1800's....God and family and good moral values lasted into the 60's....but now....Matthew 24... "Because lawlessness is increased, most [fn] people's love will grow cold. ....and we are seeing this in huge measures......In America....God is forgotten.....This is some scary knowledge....if you've read the passage above....notice....rulers....powers....spiritual forces.....most Christians are unaware of this....its not just God you should be afraid of.....its Gods massive kingdom...and those forces that are set in motion by God for those who are disobedient....lawless....Those who are not written in the Lambs Book of Life.....and when judgement comes......dont say I didnt try to introduce you to the actors that have active roles in the conclusion of the world
  24. A transference object can relate to a child with a teddy bear that gives them confort, cuddles, and company when away from their parents love. A mental mechanism is a reaction to protect the security of an individual. For example blaming something upon another when the conflict is within them or denying something to protect from anxiety. Frued believed that religion is a form of a mental mechanism because its belief helps an individual cope with the struggle and pain of life. Although Frued is ssid to be dated now, however he was the first to recognise the influence of the past and developmental stages. I am not saying that we should destroy another's faith but I am interested in your thoughts on whether you think religion is a mental mechanism or indeed a transference object. I hope for enlightened discussion.
  25. What is, I can relate too. Beyond that I use the word "if" a lot. I just do not see beyond that or see any real evidence. Dan has his beliefs but I cannot share it or want too. We are at opposite ends of the universe.
  26. Yes. I know. It hurts, doesn't it? Really. I think it's time to let go. It's Dan. For all your good intentions, reality does not need defending. In the end, reality prevails. Let it go.
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